#541
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-------------------- With respect to levels, while characters gain power with levels, their *relative* power to each other does very clearly change throughout the level spread. It's the relative power we care about in this type of discussion. Danth | |||
#542
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Classes like Rogues have a normal to above average "relative power" when grouping, and that should be considered more than soloing for Rogues specifically because most people know that Rogues are a grouping class. The difference is their "relative power" continues to increase as they level, and as they acquire more gear. They also don't have to worry about Pet AI problems when DPSing, as an example.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#543
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Druids actually have the same core issue: they can't do anything better than others. Solo high-level mobs? Shaman or Enchanter are better. Heal (in groups or on raids)? Clerics or Shaman do it better. Track? Rangers. Heck, even when it comes to SoW, Shaman get it before Druids! Both Mage and Druids have things raids need (Coth/Mod Rods/Rip Sticks and PotG/Circles), so there's a reason to still play them in raids. But outside of raids, they have nothing they do best, so they wind up farming plat/gear for alts that can do something better, and then being retired. So, I don't think CotH is to blame, it's the mediocrity of the class (well, of both classes, but Druids are less mediocre). But at the same time, it's hard to argue that a class which can do things well (but not best) is bad ... they're just boring.
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#544
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As I keep saying, "underpowered" does not mean bad. Mages are not bad at all.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#545
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Mages are better in duos/trios than rogues since their pet can act as a tank and duo with other pet classes. They're pretty much a wash in full xp groups after the rogue acquires some respective weapons. They're both necessary in the p99 raid scene. Mage clear winner here. | |||
#546
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And no, Mages aren't really that much better in duos/trios. Ideally you wouldn't put a mage in a duo/trio at all, there are much stronger combos. Same with Rogues. Rogues are played much more at 60 than Mages too.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#547
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Stop bringing other classes into the mix. Mages are much better duoers/trios too where a competent healer/tank isn't always present, they just mesh better with more classes. Sure, rogues scale better in the raid scene at 60. But as you've pointed out, raiding is casual, and it's only a part of the game, so sorry, rogues are much more underpowered, doesn't make em bad though. | |||
#548
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Rogues can scale better than Mages at 60 outside of the raid scene. You can still get great items without heavy raiding, and you don't have to worry about AI issues when it comes to Mage pets. The problem is Mages don't have anything going for them at higher levels other than CoTH. If you aren't planning on CoTH botting, basically every other class will give you the same options or more at 60 outside of raiding. If you want to group, Rogues and Mages basically have the same shot of getting in, because duos/trios generally don't pick dedicated DPS classes anyway. It's better to pick classes that can fill multiple roles. And in a full group both Rogues and Mages DPS just fine.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#549
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Rogue's lack of soloing doesn't make them suck, but it does lower their overall rating. I'd treat clerics no differently. They definitely don't suck, but it does lower their overall power rating. Rogues dont really get anything great outside of raiding that makes them any better. They need to get epic to keep up with mage dps(pet, nukes, DS). But mage can get a water staff for their final 2 water pets, which is prob more effective than anything else a rogue can get outside raids. Mages are great pp farmers, droga for instance. Every other class cannot give you this benefit. Wizards will go oom from like 1 mediocre mob. Sounds like you don't duo/trio much. And why are you bringing in other classes again? Focus here on mage vs rogue. Mage pet can fit multiple roles in a duo/trio, not to mention can be resummoned at will when sufficient healing is not present. It will take most of a druids mana to heal a rogue whereas a mage can just resummon a monster pet for free basically. Again, rogues aren't bad, just more underpowered than mages. | |||
#550
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I am bringing in other classes because the discussion is "most underpowered class overall", so that includes all classes. The problem here is you are basically saying in poorly formed duo/trio groups Mages can do well. I am not sure why that is a huge plus, since poorly formed groups aren't going to do great anyway, whether you have a Mage or not. Plenty of other classes can do just fine in suboptimal groups too, so it doesn't make a Mage special. To your point about Mage pets being able to tank, Rogues could tank as well if you had a group with a slower, since we are talking about weird group comps. They have much better defense skills than a Shaman, who can face tank just fine with slow. They also have two defensive discs, Counterattack Discipline and Nimble Discipline.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 08-08-2022 at 02:52 PM..
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