And I raaaaaan, I raaaan so far awaaaayyyy

[Hasbinlulz]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Multiple people cited wrong sources then.

Zeelot didn't like how the situation was handled and as far as I know he isn't considered a RnF troll.

Several TMO members? It was very few of us that I remember.

I can tell you now, RnF trolls had absolutely nothing to do with influencing Zeelot's decision, either time.

He gives 0fucks about RnF trolls outside of the occasional laugh.

Stealin, herald of Zeelot.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait so... it didn't get done? Im confused? Cause I thought it did get done.

Don't play hide the ball. Again. The statement was made that RnF has no meaningful impact upon inter-guild relationships. I cited the example I did because I believe it clearly illustrates that it does.

The RF rotation being honored does not preclude that it was difficult to honor it because of RnF.

Originally Posted by Autotune

Multiple people cited wrong sources then.

I don't understand the point of this statement. What does this even mean? People directly stated that RnF was one reason they felt the rotation should be dishonored. Are you telling me that you know the real motivations of those individuals better than they themselves did?

Originally Posted by Autotune

I can tell you now, RnF trolls had absolutely nothing to do with influencing Zeelot's decision, either time

But it absolutely did influence the decisions of others. Those, in turn, do influence the leadership. Surely, you're not arguing that every leadership decision in TMO is utterly unilateral?

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No guilds can come together because [b]TMO[b/] wants to much for their share of the pie. Guild will play by the rules until someone gets upset and one guy decided to play by "server rules" for the betterment of the guild.

FTFY Alarti. When IB left all the players who really wanted raid loot joined TMO. Our current system gives 100% of raid loot to the players who put in the time rather than those who have skill (yes, I am aware those traits are not mutually exclusive).

I'm not judging here, just saying thats the reality. The only guild standing in the way of a rotation is TMO (and maybe FE I suppose). You also happen to have all the RnF trolls :P

[Harazzer]

Everyone stopped fighting with TMO 10 pages ago so they just fight with each other. If only you wanted competition in game like you do on forumquest.

[Hasbinlulz]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You also happen to have all the RnF trolls :P

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[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTFY Alarti. When IB left all the players who really wanted raid loot joined TMO. Our current system gives 100% of raid loot to the players who put in the time rather than those who have skill (yes, I am aware those traits are not mutually exclusive).

I'm not judging here, just saying thats the reality. The only guild standing in the way of a rotation is TMO (and maybe FE I suppose). You also happen to have all the RnF trolls :P

Your facts, arent facts. BDA and FE have their share of trolls, not to mention all the trolls who don't play here.

And you seem to be alluding abouta rotation, I was talking about competitive raid rules. Rotations are just boring

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exhibit A: TMO has a monopoly on VP based mostly because 99% of us don't want to deal with it.

Anyway Ephi, with all due respect I don't think you are fully appreciating the negative impact of GM decisions. I realize that laws and judges are a lot more random than people think, but IMO you should look at every nontrivial GM decision on the raiding scene as a failure of the raid rules.

I think this is a fair point. I think a lesson here, if we pick up nothing else, is that perhaps CT should be modified as an encounter to somehow record who took the first DT, say if and only if, the raid that took the DT engages within 5 seconds. This could then prevent this exact situation.

Even with FTE shouts, CT is still a fight that once you're committed you will wipe if you pull back. You lose your kite, you've got a DT cycle, etc. Otherwise, you risk a rival guild sniping the 2nd DT as it happened here forcing the first to pull back almost inevitably wiping.

[Hasbinlulz]

Wait.. Did they buff CT? I haven't played in years.....

Why are people talking about wiping to CT?

[Hasbinlulz]

Is that a thing that actually happens still?

[Zeelot]

I haven't seen a CT wipe in ages. Only when there's 100+ people in the zone and everything desyncs.