Proposed Raid Rule Adjustments/Changes

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by williestargell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not everyone just agree not to use auto-firing macros to target/fte?

I don't think this is enforceable.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by williestargell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

race to loggin at the spawn point will always be won by the guild that has all the extra toons with ip exemptions...in other words, TMO is suggesting a rule that gives them a greater advantage.

Why not everyone just agree not to use auto-firing macros to target/fte?

You can't police it, you can't detect it, you can't enforce it. Best bet is to eliminate the ability for a person tracking to FTE - it voids out FTE. Like Mazam said, it's not a picture perfect solution at all, but it's the best we're going to get. We don't like making more and more rules to moderate the raid scene, so this is as clean an attempt without polluting the raid scene with complex guidelines - that's just going to leave loopholes open for the p99 Attorney's at Law.

[Striiker]

I proposed this approach in the past and it was not met favorably. I am pleased to see that a change of heart has occurred. As always, there are those with a suspicion of why this is coming about now (and not previously) but it's hardly worth worrying over. (put away those tinfoil hats)

I am in favor of seeing the trackers no longer being allowed to be the taggers. Allowing taggers to be camped at / near the spawn still pushes a significant advantage to those with exceptionally low latency and high speed disk systems. Adding those with IP exempt accounts to the mix adds to this advantage for some at the cost of fairness to others.

I accept that no solution will ever be 100% "fair" to all involved however I do suggest that we all add to this proposal; a request to the server admins to randomize the spawn location of the raid mob such that it will be somewhere along its normal path route. It is my belief that this minor change would significantly mitigate the multi-account / faster system / lower latency disparity which would otherwise exist and open up these FFA targets to more guilds on the server.

Adding the spawn randomizer is not 100% "classic" but it's a very minor change and would not break the classic feel of the server. It is an attempt to address other factors of the modern computing environment which were not also present in the classic era of Everquest. We also already have other policies which are not classic in place because they make the server a better place for those who play here (no boxing rule for one).

Partial Summary:

• Guilds to agree to a policy where trackers are not also taggers.
• Guilds to agree to a penalty for violating the policy. (This would often require GM assistance).
• Guilds to request a change to the spawn mechanic such that the mob spawns at a random location along its normal path. (If Nilbog is willing to agree to this and can commit time to code it)

We could all then hammer out the final details of where guilds can pre-stage etc. if we can get agreement to the above. Thoughts?

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO would like to suggest the following changes to the current raid rules, in the spirit of improving the raiding environment for all involved:

- A reduction from 2 trackers per guild per zone to 1. We would like for VP/Trak to be an exception and remain at 2. With a specific two rangers only limit in VP, each of which must be parked in the 2 drake lava tube.

- When a raid mob spawns, any character already logged into the zone, including trackers, forfeit the right to contribute in any manner on that target for their guild. This includes securing FTE, any/all forms of stalling, healing/dps, the training away of mobs, and the opening of any doors. With the exception of a single coth mage at Trakanon, trackers are there to track and observe only. Inside VP, a designated exception period will also be given to each guild post-dragon-death to allow for CR'ing/rebuffs/looting, in the event of a back-to-back dragon spawn.

We believe these changes should help address the longstanding concerns regarding spam clicking/claims of autofire use/pet pulling, while hopefully reducing the zone-in poopsocking on select targets.

To reiterate on some grey areas:

- Fear/Hate - Nobody other then the tracker can be logged out in Fear/Hate. Period.

- If you have a 2 man coth team linked up in Seb, that's your 2 man limit at spawn and nobody else should be logging in down at the ledge.

- No guild may log in any more than 2 characters at any raid mob's spawn point, as per current rules.

What's to stop every encounter from turning into a CoH/anchor where you invite the FTE'r that logs in? Or is that going to be the new acceptable practice?

The mage would be the sole tracker with the anchor at the acceptable rally point. Would CoHing be considered contributing, and thus not allowed? (For mobs that aren't Trak) Wouldn't mind Trak being blanketed in that as well, with people racing down old school style.

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's to stop every encounter from turning into a CoH/anchor where you invite the FTE'r that logs in? Or is that going to be the new acceptable practice?

The mage would be the sole tracker with the anchor at the acceptable rally point. Would CoHing be considered contributing, and thus not allowed? (For mobs that aren't Trak) Wouldn't mind Trak being blanketed in that as well, with people racing down old school style.

Yes, coth'ing would be considered a contribution thus not allowed outside the Trak encounter.

I don't think any of us (well, Unbrella in our case) have enough time in the day to deal with the mountain of train QQ, petitions, and fraps that would undoubtedly come out of every old school race down to Trak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[-Catherin-]

The propsed ruleset by Fearstalker, and randomizing where the dragon spawns rather than the static spot that everyone knows about will fix all of these problems.

It is a possibly non classic adjustment that takes into mind modern advantages, and in effect creates a more classic environment.

[quido]

I understood that requesting source-supported raiding changes was basically out of the question.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is a possibly non classic adjustment that takes into mind modern advantages, and in effect creates a more classic environment.

Randomizing the spawns would not have that great of an effect and is only limited to world dragons. I don't think we ever see real problems with this on the dragons it would apply to; Gore, Tal, Sev or Fay.

VP, Trak, Nagy, Vox, VS nor Inny would be impacted by a randomized spawn and would still be exposed. The simple solution, without making things overly complicated and not nagging devs to input more source code, which in absolutely no way "creates a more classic environment", would be to simply exclude trackers from FTE.

[-Catherin-]

simply excluding trackers from tagging only takes care of half the problem, because after that it becomes bind and ip-exemption-quest without a randomized spawn.

I see us working towards a good solution, but I think these need to go hand in hand for it to have any effective result.

[Erati]

I cant speak about VP for obvious reasons but

I am unaware of Jav-Questing going on for any Naggy/Vox/Inny or VS pops. Most those encounters are train your way into the boss room / semi race. Trak is a COH race now as well, nothing to do with autofire / 16 hour jav spam.

Gore. Tal, Sev, Fay are the dragons ( besides VP ) that are exposed to this autofire / 16 hour Jav quest the most and which is why randomizing would solve the problem greatly.

I do not like suggesting code either, however if its something simple and takes mere min to add to the existing code, it might be a good idea that our developers might fall in love with to bring about a healthier raiding environment on their box.

A simple comment from a Dev on this matter would be all we need to squash the idea of that code change, and its my opinion that it never hurts to ask, especially if its a widely supported idea that people agree to ( a challenge within itself ).