EQNext Discussion

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by Tiggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They have absolutely nothing done everything I heard them say was buzz speak and/or generalities.

A lot can change for the better or the worse.

I'm cautiously optimistic

Yeah, I'm absolutely in love with the game they're talking about. The game they deliver is all I'm worried about.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Calibix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played a ton of UO. Please elaborate on what specific builds you did that gimped you because there weren't any (at least when I played). Every melee build was viable, magic was viable, taming was viable. You had to make dedicated characters if you wanted to craft or treasure hunt, but outside of that anything you chose to do would have worked.

You just proved my point. You had a specific set of skills you needed to be a warrior type, a bard type, and magic type, etc. Deviation from those resulted in a gimped character. You either had the template everyone was using for that type of class, or you were gimped or very role specific.

For example, a warrior type used:

-swords/fencing/maces skill (pick one)
-anatomy
-tactics
-magic resist
-healing
-magic
-parry/lumberjack (for 2h swords or something)

with 100str 90dex 35int (making you a mostly shit magic user that couldn't really do much of anything with it other than port yourself around)

iirc, that was the standard warrior type template (it's been like 14 years). Replace any of those with say, taming, and you're gimped.

Taming required it's own set of skills that you needed to max for it to be good. No combination of melee/taming was ever good. Hally (sword) mages were only somewhat decent in the early game, but after that, there were no good warrior-mage type builds.

This is why in UO people had multiple toons out the ass.

Want to dominate PVE type shit and get lots of gold? Bard type. Nothing else came close. There was 1 template that was basically used to excel at PVE shit. Everyone and their mother used the provocation-bard template as the standard PVE farming template.

What made UO great wasn't the way it did its skills - it was the layout of the entire game and the reliance you had on other players. No one would fish up high level treasure maps and then go clear out that dungeon with the same character, because that character would have been gimped.

Now remember, UO was a true sandbox where players actually controlled almost everything in the world. People played specific builds because they were NECESSARY for the world to continue. Carpenters furnished houses. PVE farmers farmed rares to sell in their merchant houses. Fisherman/cartographers farmed rares/maps for the pve people to go hunt treasure. Material collectors would farm materials to sell to the crafts people, who created armor and weapons for the pve farmers. Cooking people bought fish and meats from the fisherman/material collectors to make food (since it wasn't really avail in bulk from merchants). Everything was interconnected.

Modern MMO's we don't really see that - and unless EQN requires everyone to rely on everyone else in a very deep manner (I HIGHLY doubt it but am very hopeful), we're going to see 1-2 builds that going to be the 'best' at PVE stuff because not much else will really matter.

[Kender]

when sony first released star wars galaxies, it came with simply the best crafting system ever seen in any mmo to that point, or since. If EQ Next has as much attention to detail as that had it will be fantastic

Everything that was crafted used resources of varying quality. 2 T21 rifles made by the same person but not in a factory will probably have different stats. 2 rifles made by different people might have vastly different stats depending on the quality of resources that went into the manufacture

it meant that people who wanted to just craft could do so, and often their products were the best quality and in demand. If you put the time in to gather the best of everything (or pay people to go get them / buy of suppliers) then your product benefitted.

[JonathanHancock]

Originally Posted by TarukShmaruk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uh you realize that it's a theme skin right?

It includes new spell effects and animations, four model evolutions based on the character stance, and new effects when killing things?

Torchlight 2, ya know the....whole game....cost $20 on release.

All these microtrans games have ridiculous prices let's be honest here

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just proved my point. You had a specific set of skills you needed to be a warrior type, a bard type, and magic type, etc. Deviation from those resulted in a gimped character. You either had the template everyone was using for that type of class, or you were gimped or very role specific.

For example, a warrior type used:

-swords/fencing/maces skill (pick one)
-anatomy
-tactics
-magic resist
-healing
-magic
-parry/lumberjack (for 2h swords or something)

with 100str 90dex 35int (making you a mostly shit magic user that couldn't really do much of anything with it other than port yourself around)

iirc, that was the standard warrior type template (it's been like 14 years). Replace any of those with say, taming, and you're gimped.

Taming required it's own set of skills that you needed to max for it to be good. No combination of melee/taming was ever good. Hally (sword) mages were only somewhat decent in the early game, but after that, there were no good warrior-mage type builds.

This is why in UO people had multiple toons out the ass.

Want to dominate PVE type shit and get lots of gold? Bard type. Nothing else came close. There was 1 template that was basically used to excel at PVE shit. Everyone and their mother used the provocation-bard template as the standard PVE farming template.

What made UO great wasn't the way it did its skills - it was the layout of the entire game and the reliance you had on other players. No one would fish up high level treasure maps and then go clear out that dungeon with the same character, because that character would have been gimped.

Now remember, UO was a true sandbox where players actually controlled almost everything in the world. People played specific builds because they were NECESSARY for the world to continue. Carpenters furnished houses. PVE farmers farmed rares to sell in their merchant houses. Fisherman/cartographers farmed rares/maps for the pve people to go hunt treasure. Material collectors would farm materials to sell to the crafts people, who created armor and weapons for the pve farmers. Cooking people bought fish and meats from the fisherman/material collectors to make food (since it wasn't really avail in bulk from merchants). Everything was interconnected.

Modern MMO's we don't really see that - and unless EQN requires everyone to rely on everyone else in a very deep manner (I HIGHLY doubt it but am very hopeful), we're going to see 1-2 builds that going to be the 'best' at PVE stuff because not much else will really matter.

I would actually love to see a modern day EQ/UO mix game.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would actually love to see a modern day EQ/UO mix game.

You and me both

[SCB]

Originally Posted by JonathanHancock [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well think about THIS:

I snipped a bunch of shit that's just you rambling incoherently. You don't seem to understand how F2P models work, or what "selling power" is/amounts to. D3 didn't invent the RMAH - D2 did. D3 made it legitimate so people got scammed less. The Diablo crowd is a bunch of idiots that buy items, period, because they have some bizarre idea of what the game is "supposed" to be and they skip the entirety of the actual game to get to that point.

Real F2P games don't function in that way. LoL doesn't function in that way. None of your idiotic rambling means anything other that "ME NO LIKEY. ME MAD" and no one gives a shit. Odds are strong this game would not sell power, but rather would sell cosmetic things like other F2P MMOs sell, and possibly monthly dungeon/expansion content as well.

PS: $25 spent by complete strangers on 100%-optional content really seems to have upset you. Sorry you're poor bro.

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and unless EQN requires everyone to rely on everyone else in a very deep manner (I HIGHLY doubt it but am very hopeful), we're going to see 1-2 builds that going to be the 'best' at PVE stuff because not much else will really matter.

To me this all hinges on how truly emergent the AI is. They state over and over regarding combat balance etc that if only a handful of builds are dominant, the AI will learn to react and counter it.

Truly adaptive AI would require different flavors of combat dynamics to succeed in the upper tiers. If they pull off this new AI, a group of players all using the same 1-3 builds would be effective at first until the AI changes their tactic and rolls you all for being too similar.

At least this is my hope.

[Kender]

Originally Posted by liveitup1216 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me this all hinges on how truly emergent the AI is. They state over and over regarding combat balance etc that if only a handful of builds are dominant, the AI will learn to react and counter it.

Truly adaptive AI would require different flavors of combat dynamics to succeed in the upper tiers. If they pull off this new AI, a group of players all using the same 1-3 builds would be effective at first until the AI changes their tactic and rolls you all for being too similar.

At least this is my hope.

that would be awesome. dynamic raiding too. strategy that worked one week for a boss might be doomed to failure the next

[liveitup1216]

During one of the Q&A's a balance question like this was asked and one of the dev's jokingly said you haven't considered the druid NPC snaring and kiting you. We keep assuming mobs will just run around and randomly target people like the mess in GW2. They're going to play closer to us, utilizing gap closers and CC and breaking LoS etc etc.

Also the whining about holy trinity being gone is just flat out wrong. They said over and over that dedicated roles are there still, you'll just also deal damage. He also iterated meaningful damage, not "tank damage". The holy trinity being required is what's being taken out of the equation.

The design goal seems to be play however you want, because no matter what you do this new AI is going to learn and plan and adapt to the things you throw at it.