EQNext Discussion

[LordSterben]

Originally Posted by Trojanman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love the art direction. As a visual effects artist and television producer, I think the use of color and mood are very appealing. I think a lot of people that disagree don't know what they actually want, and were ready to say it was crap before ever seeing it. Gamers make poor game designers.

Your opinion will carry more weight once we know what you've produced!




Not trolling...just curious. XD

[Trojanman]

Originally Posted by LordSterben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your opinion will carry more weight once we know what you've produced!




Not trolling...just curious. XD

That's fair, but in the interest of /anon... I produce for a very good sports franchise.

[LordSterben]

Originally Posted by Trojanman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's fair, but in the interest of /anon... I produce for a very good sports franchise.

Understood...but it was worth a shot lol

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by Kohedron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-I did NOT like the idea of each class having two weapon types.. I just don't see how it's going to be an upgrade from how it was in EQ1. The example he gave of "one weapon might be for wide clearing attacks and others are more focused" annoys me because it implies that the game will be more like Diablo where most fighting will involve just mowing down garbage mobs.
-I did NOT like how "all the content is underground, you just have to find it". I can pretty much guarantee that people will find this content after a month at the most, then suddenly there will be no end game.
-I think he said there are only 8 classes. 8 classes? C'mon.

I'll help you since this is all entirely wrong.

-Each class has a selection of weapons, so don't expect a wizard to be using a 2h axe or sword and shield or a warrior with a wand. That's what was meant. A warrior using two 1h swords will have different weapon abilities than a sword and a mace. Weapon SETS. And yes, bigger weapons like a halberd will have more reach than a dagger.

-Nobody said all the content is underground first off. They said top tier stuff could be above aground as well. The game goes above the surface and below. And the majority of it is procedurally generated (random dungeon generator). So if you dig somewhere and find a crpyt, you could dig there a month later and find nothing, or something completely different. There is "permanent" content (dungeons/etc) as well but its a smaller chunk of the content and will most likely be mostly endgame as well.

-8 classes you can choose at character creation, with the rest (including the other 7 you didn't choose) can be trained/discovered/etc in the game world.

Stop spreading misinformation.

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by Treefall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Give me classes that can CC. Give me classes that can haste, slow, buff regen, etc.

Give me the trinity.

You will. They stated multiple times roles aren't going away, they're just not required.

Did everyone watch different panels or something than I did?

[Anderdale]

Originally Posted by liveitup1216 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You will. They stated multiple times roles aren't going away, they're just not required.

Did everyone watch different panels or something than I did?

People are probably making the same mistake i made. Reading all the negative stuff and not watching the panels and reveal. I finally have had time to watch the reveal and working on getting through the panels. I have to say I am far more excited now.

Still worried about the no levels part.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Treefall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For me the art style just amplifies my sadness about the game.

Honestly, Sony CREATED the holy trinity...which was PERFECT for the genre and the basis of other games' successes.

They took what was a great design basis and changed it for no reason, and that's what pisses me off to no end.

EQ, WoW, and other games have been stepping more and more away from it - that's the direction modern games are going. I would argue, there needs to be a big shift BACK to it.

WoW had a trinity of sorts in Warrior/Priest/Mage early on. EQ's was War/Cler/Ench.

In modern WoW, EQ and other MMO's, there are tons of tanks, tons of healers, and tons of DPS - CONTROL (and true support) IS COMPLETELY and utterly gone. When I think of boring clones, I think of other games where the tank pulls half of a zone/instance while a healer spams 1 button, and all the dps spam their 1 aoe ability. That's what's killing games, not the fabled trinity.

They further destroyed the trinity by doing away with agro. GW2 did it, and it sucks, WoW pretty much did it (if you haven't played in a while...a tank has to be AFK for literally half an hour to lose agro after hitting a mob twice), and it really sucks.

DPS should have to throttle, and CC/support should be vital. Being a tank should be challenging, and a healers job should be easy when the previous is done well, and hell when it's not.

Raiding, I'm fine with gimmicks, but there should always be the core of agro, control, and moderate(/heavy when called for) dps.

Give me classes that can CC. Give me classes that can haste, slow, buff regen, etc.

Give me the trinity.

Then make the world destructible and influenced by my decisions.

Turning their back on the gold standard of what they created, like just about all modern MMOS, is what's killing these games...WoW clones are copying a game without a trinity or utterly destroying mechanics and making button mashing single-player games you play alongside other people.

Yes.

I use to thrive on being good at my ROLE! I was a support(shaman) all through EQ and a tank WoW in vanilla. And yet again a shaman in TBC and Wrath. I loved being looked upon as being almost needed at times or being highly versatile with a support class. Every player being so called 'versatile' really takes away from the fun on a PvE stand point. For PvP this 0-trinity system will work beautifully but for PvE trinity is highly needed.

[Tiggles]

Originally Posted by Anderdale [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People are probably making the same mistake i made. Reading all the negative stuff and not watching the panels and reveal. I finally have had time to watch the reveal and working on getting through the panels. I have to say I am far more excited now.

Still worried about the no levels part.

I agree Watch it all before making a decision imo

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes.

I use to thrive on being good at my ROLE! I was a support(shaman) all through EQ and a tank WoW in vanilla. And yet again a shaman in TBC and Wrath. I loved being looked upon as being almost needed at times or being highly versatile with a support class. Every player being so called 'versatile' really takes away from the fun on a PvE stand point. For PvP this 0-trinity system will work beautifully but for PvE trinity is highly needed.

You can do that still according to the dev panel. You can play a highly specialized support and still be wanted. They're taking away the need to always have a tank/healer/support/dps through playstyle and the advanced AI combat.

If you want to play straight up super support you can. You can still heal, or tank too. Just not in the same way as "all I'm doing is spamming heals" or "all I'm doing is keeping threat and hitting cooldowns on big damage".

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by liveitup1216 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can do that still according to the dev panel. You can play a highly specialized support and still be wanted. They're taking away the need to always have a tank/healer/support/dps through playstyle and the advanced AI combat.

If you want to play straight up super support you can. You can still heal, or tank too. Just not in the same way as "all I'm doing is spamming heals" or "all I'm doing is keeping threat and hitting cooldowns on big damage".

Guys, this is all spin. By their own admission nothing has been concretely designed yet. What do you think they are going to say? They are the only ones to ever think of or say or try this stuff through all the many pen & paper systems and CRPG games that have ever existed till now right? The entire world of combat mechanics has been waiting for SOE to finally step in and create the perfect solution. Because you can both remove roles and maintain them in the SOE alternate universe that exists at keynotes and dev panels. In this universe where normal logic and cause and effect apply, for those of us who have actually tried to build what they are confidently hyperbolizing over and watched others try to do to the tune of many years and many many millions of dollars and more than several now defunct games companies, it's surprisingly enough not possible to do and not do something simultaneosly.

They are going to trip over their own rhetoric at some point, and deliver a game that is one thing or the other (and from the look of their arcade/action combat graphics, it's going to be the other). That or it will fail in both regards and be something ineffectually inbetween. The rules of min/maxing and player ingenuity guarantee this outcome. Heck, their obvious reliance upon and borrowing from other games makes it inevitable.

Originally Posted by Trojanman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love the art direction. As a visual effects artist and television producer, I think the use of color and mood are very appealing. I think a lot of people that disagree don't know what they actually want, and were ready to say it was crap before ever seeing it. Gamers make poor game designers.

With respect to your experience, I couldn't disagree more. A designer is always a gamer first. If not, he/she has no business designing anything. I've worked with more than a few and some of them have sunk entire projects with their ignorance and total lack of context. I say the same thing about artists, animators, coders, and sound guys in games - they should all be avid game players. Artists particularly run the risk of focussing on artistic minutiae and personal aesthetic to the detriment of the game as a whole. Back in the day it was people who loved games who worked on them, and that love matters in so many ways in all areas of game development. It informs everything from gameplay mechanics to decisions on code structure, colour palettes, character movement, and whether or not to implement a cash store. It's not that way anymore, and it shows IMO.