Question about lists for camps

[PrimeNeedles]

Hello!

Newish player. Never had a character above 42. Played on LIVE a little bit back in early 2000's.

Question: When players make a "list" for contested camps (ex. Shiny Brass Idol in Highpass Hold, or Ring of the Ancients in Ocean of Tears), is it expected that the players on the list should stay in the zone to remain on the list? Or are they free to wander? What is the accepted protocol/etiquette regarding these lists? Any input/insight would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[DMN]

You should know lists aren't really binding on P99. Only the person camping the mob can decide to honor the list or not. Even if they honor the list but decide to leave/log before the next person arrives, someone else can come swoop in and snag the camp under you. So, ya, if you really want the camp you should make sure you are ready to take the camp over ASAP.

[PrimeNeedles]

Are there rules pertaining to lying to players on Blue? Or is it a case of cutthroat = advantage like in real life?

[Legidias]

Unfortunately, you just need to have fraps running when you make a player agreement (like next in line for camp).

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should know lists aren't really binding on P99. Only the person camping the mob can decide to honor the list or not. Even if they honor the list but decide to leave/log before the next person arrives, someone else can come swoop in and snag the camp under you. So, ya, if you really want the camp you should make sure you are ready to take the camp over ASAP.

This is absolutely not true! Please don't spread misinformation: if you don't actually know how something works, don't say anything at all.


OP, what is true is that in practice the staff stays out of the vast majority of player disputes, and the players work things out themselves. This means that most of the time, the way the list works is entirely dependent on the player, and nothing a GM says will have impact.

However, if someone does lie about list position or something, and a GM does get involved, there absolutely are rules for them. Here's a relevant GM quote:

Originally Posted by Former GM Derubael

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt. W

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

- https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

So, as the above quote says, if a GM is involved, it's your turn on a list, and you're not there (or at least there within a few minutes, where "few" depends on the camp and the GM) then yes you would lose your place on the list. But again, 95% (99%?) of the time GMs will never get involved with a list, so it comes down to the players.

I don't think most players care enough to check whether you stay in-zone while you're on the list; they just care about whether you're there when it's your turn. So most of the time you absolutely can wander wherever you want, as long as you make it back by the time you come up on the list. But if you miss your time because you were out of zone, or if a GM gets involved for some reason, you can lose your place as a result.

If it were me I'd be sure to ask the list-holder how they feel, and do whatever they say. If they say it's fine to leave zone, and I was paranoid, I'd probably take a screenshot of them saying that ... but realistically I probably wouldn't even bother with that. Your mileage may vary.


P.S. As Legidias mentioned, IF a dispute happens and a GM is brought in, it always helps if you have "fraps" (if you've recorded a video of your session). This is helpful because the GMs can't see every detail of what happened, so to a certain extent disputes are a "he says she says" situation. Having "fraps" avoids that possibility.

However, it's not like everyone on the server runs around playing with video capture on. Again, 99.9% of the time you play you'll never interact with a GM, and even on the rare occasions that you do the GM will still likely be able to make a fair call without video. But in the very small fraction of the time when someone else is breaking the rules, a GM steps in, and it's not easy for the GM to determine exactly what happened, video evidence can be handy, so it just boils down to whether you want the added hassle of having to record every session in order to avoid being screwed by some lying asshole player 0.00001% of the time (made up percentage since it's impossible to say exactly how often this will happen: the point is it's very rare) .

[kaluppo]

I have found the best way to assure you get a camp passed to you is to be right there when the current camp holder leaves.

So the key is to stay very close. Bind there if you are able to do so. Then you are just a gate away from being at the camp. If unable to bind then at least stay in the same zone. So lets say you are next in line for AC camp. You can go run over to the seafury island and solo seafury Cyclops for XP/gems while you wait cause you are less then a minute away from the AC camp.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is absolutely not true! Please don't spread misinformation: if you don't actually know how something works, don't say anything at all.

Everything I said is true.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by PrimeNeedles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are there rules pertaining to lying to players on Blue? Or is it a case of cutthroat = advantage like in real life?

"Trust but verify".

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything I said is true.

In your head maybe, but not on P99. What you said directly contradicts a GM quote, and I'll take the word of a GM over the word of a random poster with 200 posts any day of the week.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should know lists aren't really binding on P99.

Originally Posted by Former GM Derubael

The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In your head maybe, but not on P99. What you said directly contradicts a GM quote, and I'll take the word of a GM over the word of a random poster with 200 posts any day of the week.

"Waiting for a camp" is not the same thing as "waiting on a list". Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. Is pretty unequivocal and easily gamed.