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  #21  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:34 AM
mcoy mcoy is offline
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Best bet is to just level up. By level 54 with reckoning you can solo all of the mobs to get the pieces to spawn Ixi and Rage. Since both of these can drop items that others want, it's relatively easy to recruit people to help. With the renewed interest in Chardok, getting a royals group together shouldn't be too hard.

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  #22  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:11 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This is so cynical and goes against everything I play MMOs for...it is also probably true for most guilds and most players.

I haven't joined another guild on p99 since Divinity left...and I'll tell you that most of the folks in that guild were not playing in it out of a drive for DKP.
Really? You (and the other members of Divinity) would be perfectly happy joining a guild where you/they just help others and never get any loot for yourself? I call BS.

Again, as I said, people in guilds absolutely do help each other out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not saying everyone in every guild does everything out of a "drive for DPS".

But for the vast vast majority of players, if you're in a guild where everyone else gets loot and you never do, you leave. The only exception is if you're so tired of the game and jaded that loot doesn't even matter to you anymore, and in my experience at that point you'll typically leave the guild/game soon anyways. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

DKP is just how you ensure everyone gets loot from time to time, in a fair way. Or at least one way; arguably loot councils or other methods could do the same (in practice I think DKP is almost always more fair).
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Last edited by loramin; 05-06-2019 at 12:19 PM..
  #23  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:59 AM
Videri Videri is offline
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If you join a guild, they will want you to get your epic. Even if you don't play 16 hours a day. Cleric epics not only aid the entire guild by increasing cleric mana pools and facilitating recovery from raid wipes - they also provide loot to other players from the requisite Ixiblat and Ragefire kills. I bet you if you join a guild, people will ask you how they can help you with your epic. Try it.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:20 AM
Crede Crede is offline
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Originally Posted by pijan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Unguided so I feel I'll end up having to MQ my epic. Anyone have advice on making coin as a cleric? It's been a bit hard to solo much that isn't undead.
You picked the wrong class to make coin. Start a mage, extremely cheap to gear, level one up, and summon WR bags to farm remote dungeons and enough pp for anything your heart desires
  #25  
Old 07-12-2019, 06:26 PM
Sajan Sajan is offline
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If you make it to 56 without your epic it wouldn't take a terribly long time to farm enough plat to buy it. Although my alt Cleric has an epic and is 56, I get several tells within an hour or two of just farting around ingame for rezzes from desperate people paying obscene amounts in donations. I can clear about 1k an hour on average just by being online and LFG (read: available to run around Norrath). The cash will also flow quickly by just being in a group grinding exp in high traffic zones like KC and Sebilis at 56, when people know you can 96% rez regardless of your epic status. So I disagree with Cleric being the wrong class for making plat as long as you can make it to 56. Focus on leveling!
Last edited by Sajan; 07-12-2019 at 06:34 PM..
  #26  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:32 PM
bodenn bodenn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Really? You (and the other members of Divinity) would be perfectly happy joining a guild where you/they just help others and never get any loot for yourself? I call BS.

Again, as I said, people in guilds absolutely do help each other out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not saying everyone in every guild does everything out of a "drive for DPS".

But for the vast vast majority of players, if you're in a guild where everyone else gets loot and you never do, you leave. The only exception is if you're so tired of the game and jaded that loot doesn't even matter to you anymore, and in my experience at that point you'll typically leave the guild/game soon anyways. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

DKP is just how you ensure everyone gets loot from time to time, in a fair way. Or at least one way; arguably loot councils or other methods could do the same (in practice I think DKP is almost always more fair).

TSS doesn't use DKP only need before greed. We do fine, and i see less greedy people than i have in others.
  #27  
Old 07-16-2019, 08:03 AM
username17 username17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
... but I suspect you'll want other gear improvements after that, and what better way to get it than to stick around?

^ Is how I was in Anonymous for 5+ years.

5 50+ toons most with their epics. 2-3 of them (still) camped in Sky for the fun loot up there.
Anonymous is a great group of people. But any casual guild will likely be a good fit for you.
Just make it clear that your play times are limited and sporadic.
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  #28  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:05 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodenn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
TSS doesn't use DKP only need before greed. We do fine, and i see less greedy people than i have in others.
ESSAY incoming!!

Need before greed works out for the lowest common denominator. Where it is prone to repeated failure is your high value dedicated raider who is mostly fully geared minus a few key pieces. That person shows up consistently, works hard helping others get what they need, and then when the one of those few pieces they actually need drops are now “need” rolling on equal footing against a dozen or 2 other people who also “need” but maybe show up less consistently or maybe won 2-10 items while the dedicated raider was patiently waiting for his chance while others were making gains all along.

It works great for a bunch but unfortunately often ends up failing the guild when/if your core raiders get frustrated and move on.

I’ve seen it in multiple guilds both love and on p99. Over the years the most obvious were the main tanks. Some of them raid leaders. I can remember at least 3 main tanks I saw eventually walk, not in a fit of rage but just in slowly building disappointment. They left quietly and left a massive vacuum in their wake.

Imagine the following:

You have a tight knit family guild. Small, everyone happy, casual. Content starts small then builds. More slowly join and the guild finally gets on the cusp of doing content with meaningful rewards. Guild recruits and expands modestly. Content falls, rewards drop. Now more want to join. You now have a moderately large “family” guild with 70-90% casual population and 10-30% high attendance core value players. 2 of them are your reliable main tank warriors. They’ve been around forever. They’re always there. They accumulated the best of what the guild was doing and are ready to take that next step but now there are a bunch of new or low attendance folks to gear up. Hungry mouths to feed. They dutifully lead and continue spearhead the charge for that content already conquered. Weeks or months go by and they help others (often brand new) get theirs and get nothing themselves. Finally a big mob drops. Next tier items, but it’s need vs greed. Everyone needs that thing, it’s better than anyone has. Everyone goes in and murphy’s Law of the universe kicks in and the new guy, low level guy, low attendance guy (etc) wins it. It stings but what the hell right? Maybe a month goes by before the next trophy kill but this cycle continues...

Now what does that old timer do? It’s a family guild and “dkp” is a four letter word. But this “family” guild is a lot less recognizable due to the ballooning size. It’s not a tight squad anymore, more of a casual horde with multiple cliques.

What happens? Inevitably the core folk feel less and less connected to the guild and some (or all) of them inevitably either move on to greener pastures or stop logging on. When your reliably “always there” main tanks, clerics, or other depart it hurts. Maybe some raid nights get called off due to lack of critical pullers/tanks/healers. Raids are less predictable. Newer folk not deeply connected to the guild may or may not disappear in waves.

-Need before greed favors the lowest common denominator.
-Loot council is highly (HIGHLY) susceptible to corruption, favoritism, or at least the perception thereof even if not present.

DKP is fair and not bias. There are bad ways to set it up where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

This isn’t a shameless plug for my guild. I’ve been in several guilds in the last decade who use the same exact or similar process:

-You earn dkp
-no minimum attendance requirements but if you’re online you help
-you bid dkp for things you want.
-you want it? You bid for it. Whatever it’s worth to you you bid that. Want it “bigger” than others? Bid bigger! You win, you pay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
-mains prioritized over alts by bid caps on non mains.

DKP ain’t a 4 letter word. It is literally the most fair way for everyone in the guild. Play as much as you want. Help as much as you can. You are rewarded the degree to which you help and play with your buddies.

When I finally admitted Blackheart Pirates was dead and considered joining p99 raiding (on my terms) that’s the structure I looked for. I’m busy, I need to be able to focus on life/work/family for a week or 3 from time to time. I wanted a guild that I could be there a lot or a little without penalty or judgement. Play as hard as I want/can, back off as I need or life demands. I wanted a guild where there still safeguards in that mains are more important than alts but not so importantly that a main could scoop up a thing for 2dkp when I’d pay 50 for my own alt. Mains who really want a thing have to start over 100 and we all know that.

Blood Guard has that structure. They were a blast to be around and were/are legitimately nice guys/gals. Other guilds will always have shifting views of the competition ... mad/bad/sad/jerks/etc. I gave em a try and I’m still there. It was a good choice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. There are plenty of good guilds with good people but I’m happy where I am.
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  #29  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:44 PM
pijan pijan is offline
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If anyone cares I was able to get my epic. I won 2 very high value items in Seb. Almost 60 now too!
  #30  
Old 07-21-2019, 02:23 AM
Auvdar Auvdar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Really? You (and the other members of Divinity) would be perfectly happy joining a guild where you/they just help others and never get any loot for yourself? I call BS.

Again, as I said, people in guilds absolutely do help each other out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm not saying everyone in every guild does everything out of a "drive for DPS".

But for the vast vast majority of players, if you're in a guild where everyone else gets loot and you never do, you leave. The only exception is if you're so tired of the game and jaded that loot doesn't even matter to you anymore, and in my experience at that point you'll typically leave the guild/game soon anyways. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

DKP is just how you ensure everyone gets loot from time to time, in a fair way. Or at least one way; arguably loot councils or other methods could do the same (in practice I think DKP is almost always more fair).
That's not what he was saying. No one in Divinity had a "me before them" attitude. Loot was never a priority for people. You got loot sure, you have to in order to progress. But no one went in with a "I better get that item" mentality either. The vast majority of people didn't care who got what.

I mean, I get exactly what you're saying. And that is the usual standard with guilds in MMOs in general. Divinity just had a different feel to how people interacted with each other in terms of loot. It's hard to explain, especially being with them since basically day one the mentality grew natural to me.

It sounds odd on the outside, but trust me.

edit: DKP almost always works out more fairly agreed. This was just a rare group of people that DKP was never really needed. I mean, Divinity did try it once back in late 2009 early 2010... it was almost unanimously deemed pointless. But for most situations, DKP is the way to go yes.
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