[RANT] Why Red 2.0 would suck even if it ever happened

[Nexii]

Even a handful of people could keep a raid of 150+ wiped in the rooted TOV meta if training was allowed.

Probably need a looser ruleset for exp zones and a stricter one for raiding. But yea all we have is 7 year old rules and the state of the server shows for it

[magnetaress]

It's probably worth it to try and aim for fair play knowing ppl will pay dearly for it instead of just giving up and going completely berglord wild wild west.

PvP is fun. I spent a year playing on a 12 person box with constant trains in hate and fear. So like I don't need to re-hash that part of my life. I'll be ready to buff and heal ppl when the time comes for 2021 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[heartbrand]

I think a lot of people love the concept of PvP contesting for spawns and raids but then when they actually see what PvP really is like (being ganked mid PvE fight, training, dispelling mobs or raid interference, people camping countless alts for long battles of attrition that involve hugging zone lines etc.,) they check out.

The other part is just how incredibly annoying dying in EQ can be. World PvP in WoW, back when it was a thing, was fine because you had a skirmish where the worst case scenario was a bad run back to your body. Dying on red99 can literally involve you being SOL for hours until someone can summon your corpse if it’s particular bad. That makes it exciting but also creates an atmosphere where most people are terrified to engage in PvP unless the outcome is certain. This then in turn leads to most people joining a single “Zerg” guild for protection and success. Perhaps a well executed teams server with sufficient population would solve this but I think it would require some non classic changes to how raid mobs are handled. As long as the model is classic 5-7 day spawns where winner takes all and you can sit there and shut a raid down for hours, people will get burnt out and most will take the path of least resistance.

Anyways my elf novel is done now.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a lot of people love the concept of PvP contesting for spawns and raids but then when they actually see what PvP really is like (being ganked mid PvE fight, training, dispelling mobs or raid interference, people camping countless alts for long battles of attrition that involve hugging zone lines etc.,) they check out.

The other part is just how incredibly annoying dying in EQ can be. World PvP in WoW, back when it was a thing, was fine because you had a skirmish where the worst case scenario was a bad run back to your body. Dying on red99 can literally involve you being SOL for hours until someone can summon your corpse if it’s particular bad. That makes it exciting but also creates an atmosphere where most people are terrified to engage in PvP unless the outcome is certain. This then in turn leads to most people joining a single “Zerg” guild for protection and success. Perhaps a well executed teams server with sufficient population would solve this but I think it would require some non classic changes to how raid mobs are handled. As long as the model is classic 5-7 day spawns where winner takes all and you can sit there and shut a raid down for hours, people will get burnt out and most will take the path of least resistance.

Anyways my elf novel is done now.

Good read, your sentiment is accurate. Real EQ is almost too inconvenient outside of those needing a feeling of nostalgia for 6 hrs, then we tend to move on. Or find easier ways to fix that nostalgia. (This is the appeal of other servers that allow boxing, fast exp gain, boosts to 55, live and it's gearing in later expansions to re-live older content to some extent, etc).

I think this box is what it was meant to be, and that isn't the most popular thing out there because most people are returning to EQ to get the epics and NTOV and legacy loot they didn't get in 2001.

The server (current) is viable for RP PvP and twink battles, but not gonna be what people expect PvP to be by todays contemporary standards.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated HB.

[Gustoo]

I also very much appreciate heartbrands sentiment especially as he spent a lot of time raiding here and still occasionally posts. Thanks dude.

I completely agree with all of what HB said, but that is why I never raided and only have leveled one character up to 50+ by myself (gustoo) ever in my entire life. I don't like to grind, grinding is work. I like to adventure. Adventuring is fun.

Thats a big reason why I am so seriously interested in seeing item loot come to pass, because I like PVP at level 10, 12, 16, and that spretty much it. I might make a level 20 guy just to hit those level 16 wizards when they're rustling my level 12 caster's jimmies or something.

PVP at max level is really inconvenient because even without PVP a lot of these raids take a LONG TIME so to work for a LONG TIME just to have some guy come and train your raid is really really just barfable. I don't know the best way to handle that because I have basically no personal experience dealing with it at all. For me I have raided so seldom that I still think they are fun and exciting because end game content is still a new adventure for me.

Sullon Rules with no PVP range and 2 teams at least fixes the OOR trainer and OOR healer issues that exist on the current server. The fact is that a fresh start might degenerate into current red99 in a year or 2 or 3 but then we do another fresh start with some fixes and we all have fun for a while again.

This is a game designed for fun that is why its mind boggling that red1.0 has been ignored for so long when a whole lot of people would have enjoyed the fresh take. MAYBE its because the concept of using 1 stable server like Blue 99 and now Red 99 as the final destination server for ALL other servers to allow for character permanence is NEW to this community. Its a good idea and lets them have REd99 as a permanent parking lot and playground for your characters while Brown 99 gets people a fresh shot.

Raiding on EQ is meant to be hard and inconvenient that is really the point of these encounters.

I think there has to be raid PVP rules because just coming and fucking up a raid and robbing 2 or so hours of 50+ peoples lives seems wrong. I know it is cool (to be the one dealing that damage) but as HB is stating here, how many people are willing to put up with that shit?

And thats why we had all those rules crop up right? I recall rules about people having a viable raid force before going to PVP against a raid party. I know it is against the open world nature of what I like about EQ PVP but it makes sense in many ways. You can harass the hell out of all those characters while they are in transit, but waiting for them to gather their force in front of a dragon then using the environment to just destroy those peoples evening seems wrong. There were player made and also sony / verant made rules for raids on Live too, probably for similar reasons. I am very unfamiliar with these. It seems like the Loot and Scoot rule for raid encounters was a pretty legitimate way for people to contest, and then lose and be rejected from the equation for the duration of the raid encounter.


THEN AGAIN I can feelerz the perspective of a team with 30 people barely trying to kill dragons versus a 120 person guild that logs on ONLY for raids and never PVP's while collecting all the dragon loot. What is the junk guild supposed to do? I remember these vibes when Nihilum was thriving. People didn't want to join, but it was the only smart way to get raid pixels.

Thats why I really don't like rulesets or really anything that tries to favor the raiding population. Raiding sucks, and if we make it all about raiding we make it all about a small amount of limited targets that only a small amount of people can access. The META of this game is basically never supposed to be reached. It is Everquest. Expansions should be coming out to make you obsolete by the time you finally learn the ropes of the latest encounter.

[magnetaress]

I'm fine getting rolled into blue with my red chars, if it means I can play a new red and my blue alts will be there. I enjoy leveling on red. Don't enjoy blues atmosphere. But its ok if my characters went there to make room for a fresh adventure.

Really don't want to relevel them, but it'd be fun on a new classic red99 hopefully even, vanilla server with lots of banded and rawhide.

I agree. The vastness of EQ is intended to be immense and untouchable. Velious dragons staying up eternally isn't at all immersion breaking to me.

The META of full BIS loots is odd to me personally. But I can also see why people put in the efforts for it. I would if I could too.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

if evil team always dominates why not just combines neutral and good? Did someone already say that idea?

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Ret.SaxonAlex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if evil team always dominates why not just combines neutral and good? Did someone already say that idea?

Huge thumbs up to this. I think team evil could survive without druids personally, paladins. Rangers.

But probably not bards. Give half elf innoruuk, rallos, bertox, cazic bards. It's anti eq lore but tolerable to me.

I think vztz was balanced team wise too. Not sure.

[Ret.SaxonAlex]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But probably not bards. Give half elf innoruuk, rallos, bertox, cazic bards. It's anti eq lore but tolerable to me.

I am glad you have said this. I have always supported evil bards. I literally thought there were dark elf bards. Not because I'm so unaware of mask of deception but because while hunting evil noobs I have been chased down by bards before. I guess I just assumed they were evil because they were in evil zones. But even if in some situations bards are bad, they are the police and evil team needs them especially to hunt down uber twinked rangers. Especially if they have no track. I remember a bard hunted me down and totally could have killed me but spared me. I was going down the obvious escape route in hopes he would think I would go the other way and wrong move. Hmmm maybe he wasn't /shrugs. My memories from being a kid might be overblown because I wanted to be the best hunter ranger lol /shrugs. Ill always be a ninja

[magnetaress]

Bards are supposed to be spies and agents of veeshan. So it stands to reason they'd infiltrate everything everywhere.

I bet a lot of bards got the mask just to RP evil.