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  #101  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:42 PM
Allishia Allishia is offline
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Detoxx / Venice found this stuff out and after argueing with them that red blade + trident was better, I finally tried the feverblade + low delay weps and agreed for agro, they are much better../nod

Quote:
Aggro Findings: It is important to note that the amount of DAMAGE you do per swing has nothing to do with the amount of THREAT generated per swing!!
It is also important to note that there apprears to be a 5% proximity applied to hate.

Warriors:

Every swing generates threat based on (Weapon Damage + Damage Bonus) = Threat Generated per Swing. This is applied whether the hit lands or misses.
The weapon bonus is applied as hate in your offhand, even though it is not applied as damage.
Riposte / Parry damage is NOT counted at any sort of hate.

Primary Hand Damage Bonuses
This is the same for all melee classes, but listed here for reference. See the Combat section of Game Mechanics for more information.

Level 28: 1
Level 31: 2
Level 34: 3
Level 37: 4
Level 40: 5
Level 43: 6
Level 46: 7
Level 49: 8
Level 52: 9
Level 55: 10
Level 58: 11

EX: A level 31 Warrior using a Wurmslayer in Primary and a Infestation in Secondary will generate:

Primary: 27 Hate per swing
Seondary: 11 Hate per swing

The same weapons in the same slots used on a level 60 Warrior will generate:

Primary: 36 Hate per swing
Secondary: 20 Hate per swing

This appears to be the case for all Melee classes, but only tested Warrior thoroughly. Rogue was tested, but not as extensive.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________

Abilities (Backstab, Flying Kick, Kick etc..) Do not apply the same hate as regular melee swings.

EX: After doing some Backstab testing, we found that

1. Weapon damage directly affects the amount of hate per backstab. We believe it to be a 6x multiplier and numbers seem to alaign with this.

A Rogue using a 9 Damage primary weapon to backstab generates 54 threat per backstab (108 on double backstabs)
A Rogue using a 12 Damage primary weapon to backstab generates 72 hate per backstab (144 on double backstabs)
A Rogue using a 15 Damage primary weapon to backstab generates 90 hate per backstab (180 on double backstabs)

EVADE: After testing, it appears that evade has a 10% hate dropoff on success and is capped at 500 hate.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

Spells: After testing several spells with a controlled variable (Flux staff was found to be 50 hate per click) we were able to detemine hate from several Weapon Procs and Spells

All spell damage is a 1:1 Damage to Threat Ratio
All slows are 700 Hate (Drowsy to Turgurs and even Tigirs, Enchanter slows as well)
Tashani is 650 hate
Tasnania is 800 hate
Tashanian is 1350 hate
Mana Sieve is 700 hate

We tested weapon procs with the same spell to see if they are capped because of this post:

Haynar: Capped non-damage hate component for out of class procs/clickies to 400 hate.

This was found to be correct as a Tash Stick was 400 hate using Tashani and 650 hate when casted by the Enchanter.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________

Common Weapon Procs:

Sceptre of Destruction: 688 Hate
Warrior 2h Epic : 675 Hate
Warrior 1h Red Blade: 600 Hate
Feverblade, Bane of the Shissar: 510 Hate
Wavecrasher / Trident of the Deep Sea: 400 Hate
Neverderia's Horn: 105 Hate
Jaelens' Katana: 120 hate (80 from lifetap, 40 from Heal aggro)

Rune Threat: Half the Amount of Rune (If rune is 400, Threat is 200) *Important note that it requires a witness check for the hate to generate so could take several casts / procs

Heal Aggro: Half the amount of the heal done (If heal is 500, Threat is 250) *Important note that it requires a witness check for the hate to generate so could take several casts / procs
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  #102  
Old 09-28-2022, 07:32 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is offline
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So scepter clicks and afk?
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  #103  
Old 09-29-2022, 08:58 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Tangentially, should aggro not be 2DMG+Damage Bonus? I swear it was on live at some point. Maybe it got changed with one of the revamps to let aggro keep up with boost to spells??
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Last edited by Jimjam; 09-29-2022 at 09:01 AM..
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  #104  
Old 09-29-2022, 09:39 AM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Detoxx / Venice found this stuff out and after argueing with them that red blade + trident was better, I finally tried the feverblade + low delay weps and agreed for agro, they are much better../nod
Thanks for posting their findings Allisha.
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  #105  
Old 09-29-2022, 10:27 AM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Using the above calculations strictly assuming 255 dex, level 60 warrior, and 100% haste:

FR =5066 hate/min
2h epic = 5077 hate/min
Infestation/red = hate/min
Trident/red = 5486 hate/min
WS/red = 5507 hate/min
Trident/nev = 5798 hate/min
Feverblade/nev = 5867 hate/min
Feverblade + barbed scale whip = 5415 hate/min

My guess is that hate/swing may be off for the reasons Jimjam says above. I could have sworn it was 2x dmg+ dmg bonus
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Last edited by Troxx; 09-29-2022 at 10:52 AM..
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  #106  
Old 09-29-2022, 12:29 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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According to this 2003 steel warrior thread the off hand shouldn't be anywhere near as good aggro as primary (on a per swing basis)
https://web.archive.org/web/20110104...ead.php?t=3789

According to this a swing from an 8/20 weapon in off hand is worth less than half of an 8/20 swing from primary... that suggests dmg+db we have here for primary is correct, but dmg+db for offhand is erronious.... at least at 2003 era!

Perhaps the 2xdmg+ bonus is me misremembering or remembering a different era. I may have been thinking of the steamfont / meldrath expansion time. Certainly 2003 era posts don't support 2xdmg+db
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Last edited by Jimjam; 09-29-2022 at 12:32 PM..
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  #107  
Old 09-29-2022, 12:38 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Nah I remember it being the same Jimjam, you’re not misremembering. It looks like Detoxx did some very comprehensive testing so the numbers are most likely correct for project 1999.

DB threat being applied to offhand is definitely not as it should be. It was never like that on live. It should be patched out.

Red epic offhand is producing 654 more threat than it should.
Nevs at 10/15 is generating about a thousand more threat than it should.
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Last edited by Troxx; 09-29-2022 at 12:47 PM..
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  #108  
Old 09-29-2022, 01:07 PM
Allishia Allishia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Nah I remember it being the same Jimjam, you’re not misremembering. It looks like Detoxx did some very comprehensive testing so the numbers are most likely correct for project 1999.

DB threat being applied to offhand is definitely not as it should be. It was never like that on live. It should be patched out.

Red epic offhand is producing 654 more threat than it should.
Nevs at 10/15 is generating about a thousand more threat than it should.
Y'all better not get my weapons nerfed or I'll hurt you!
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  #109  
Old 09-29-2022, 01:36 PM
mycoolrausch mycoolrausch is offline
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it would be very p99 to nerf the aggro of an already nerfed class while the garbage blade of carnage sits there mere days out of timeline from being the only good warrior weapon in velious
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  #110  
Old 09-29-2022, 02:04 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Y'all better not get my weapons nerfed or I'll hurt you!
The change wouldn’t necessarily be a nerf. Every other dual wielding class would start generating less threat as well. Holding aggro off rogues would actually get easier.
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