Where did WoW go right?

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by tops419 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with the poster above. WoW was MUCH more complex (as far as raiding goes) than EQ.
I think the reason so many people play P1999, is you get a chance to be something you could have never been in the same era. The top 5 or 10% in EQ used to have everything: the COF's, Epics, God lewt, etc.
Now 90% have it and it's actually kinda wierd to see a character sporting level appropriate gear( a caster with a flowing black robe, a melee with banded, etc)

Disagree with this. When WoW released it was pretty cut and dry just like EQ was. It wasn't like WoW released with all kinds of awesome raid content. I remember getting to max level and not having much to do when it released.

As I stated before...a lot of this WoW talk is due to the progression of MMO based games, not so much WoW in itself. EQ started getting some pretty tricky and sick raids along the way also. Doesn't mean it was necessarily better at any certain point in time.

I remember playing Anarchy Online which I do believe released before WoW. Had a ton of cool features. Links, item mods, etc. It was basically a flop of a game. Lot of those features later found their way into EQ and WoW.

Just because you seen it first in WoW doesn't mean it was the first to pioneer something.

[Houdiny]

Well if you will read the context in which things were written it might help. He said WoW raiding was much more complex than EQ. Simply not true. I can think of a ton of intense raids that I personally did in EQ. Not just tank and spank. Sure as a healer your job is going to be boring. You have the same job in every raid in every game...keep the tank alive lol of course your going to be bored. It's part of it. Buck up soldier.

Raids in EQ such as Rathe Council, Xegony, all kinds of GoD encounters, Vishimtar, Queen Sendaii, Hatchet, Mayong Mistmoore, 2 or 3 others in DoDH, Porthio, Any number of fights in Solteris, I can go on and on and on about encounters that have MANY things going on.

My entire point is he was comparing WoW and all its glory to 2 expansions of Everquest. 2 Expansions that are essentially the beginning of MMO's when encounters weren't complex in any game. That's what I'm trying to get across. By the time WoW had all those nifty raids EQ had them too.

GoD I considered mild raiding and it was considered the guild breaker of expansions. Many guilds folded and quit trying to get through GoD. What he is comparing is apples to oranges not apples to apples

[falkun]

Most people on a classic emu server are going to compare classic raiding with classic raiding. WoW's original group and raid content was far more complex than the initial offerings from EQ.

Hell, Shadowfang Keeps final boss did more casting than melee - a unheard of concept for raid bosses in EQ.

[bizzum]

Anybody else think it's wierd that Blizzard hasn't tried opening a few progression servers? I always thought they could milk their franchise a bit more with those.

[falkun]

EQ's progression servers were shit. If Blizzard does anything like that, I'd hope they'd do it right.

But I don't think they will because they, like SOE, wish for the vision to continue onward.

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ's progression servers were shit. If Blizzard does anything like that, I'd hope they'd do it right.

But I don't think they will because they, like SOE, wish for the vision to continue onward.

This is very true. Sony did these servers wrong in all ways possible. It was always way too quick. I think WoWs structure would make better for it anyways. With instances it could be sped up slightly (still not to the degree of EQ prog servers) and still more people could be up to speed. I still even think if it followed the exact timeline of the original it would still be sucessful.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I shouldn't have to decipher the "context" (lol) on an online forum, be clear instead, because you simply look like a hater. Healing in WoW is by far more complex than EQ ever was, same with melee, same with casters. I'd rather smash buttons for a rotation any day than hit auto attack and watch a fight for an hour. I asked you to "go on and on" about those raids, you didn't. So please do. The most I remember from them was occasional AOE and fears which weren't even very common to begin with.

I also never said I was bored, part of the reason I play on P1999 is the ability to multi-task while playing (sometimes). Other games you actually need to be active 99% of the time. There's no debate about complexity, you're letting your nostalgia goggles blind you, or you simply lied about ever playing WoW. See the part I bolded? You mentioned how encounters weren't complex. WoW (and some other games honestly) made more complex encounters, that would be an improvement, aka Where WoW went right! GEE WIZ!

Lets compare 2 expansions of WoW to 2 expansions of EQ then...would that be fair? Its not about comparison in that sense really. If you'd take a moment to stop foaming at the mouth with hate, you'd see the thread title. We were talking about improvements made from all MMOs not just EQ either. If you think live EQ has nearly the complexity of raids compared to even just the burning crusade expansion of WoW, you simply didn't play.

You're also still trying to make the point that "OMG EQ HAD THIS STUFF THE SAME TIME WOW DID!" No one here is saying WoW was the first MMO to come up with everything, yet you seem to look for anything possible to defend EQ and bash WoW for no good reason.

We're on a classic EQ forum for god's sake. We're all here for a reason, you don't need to put up a shield and defend your beloved game. You're allowed to enjoy more than one game, you're allowed to hate some, but this topic was never about bashing WoW, but people like you always feel the need to hate on what is/was popular. I bet you still use your zach morris cell phone too since APPLE AND IPHONES SUCK RARAHRAHRAHH. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

QFT <3

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree, I remember seeing tons of posts on the WoW forums in the past about it too over the years. A lot of the expansion events were actually pretty enjoyable too for the most part. They did make comments about it though at one point, I'm sure you could find it with a little google work, I might look later and respond with some links if I find any info. If I remember it had to do with engine changes and whatnot, may be wrong though.

I also find it interesting that even with engine / content changes, they say it would be hard to do or they can't? If I was making shit and changing it significantly, I'd keep a backup or an archive of the old ones even if there was no initial plan to use it. Maybe I'm just a bit more meticulous but I doubt keeping that info on a drive is very expensive.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by bizzum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is very true. Sony did these servers wrong in all ways possible. It was always way too quick. I think WoWs structure would make better for it anyways. With instances it could be sped up slightly (still not to the degree of EQ prog servers) and still more people could be up to speed. I still even think if it followed the exact timeline of the original it would still be sucessful.

The biggest things they did wrong was not revert to classic melee models and leave in newbie armor quests. Newbie armor quests made all of the L30 Sol Ro gear inconsequential, you basically obtained a full set of gear by L15 and held it until planar. Also, melees were doing significantly more damage than was classic. Monks didn't use anything other than H2H until PoP was released, because their naked fists were just -better-.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by bizzum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also find it interesting that even with engine / content changes, they say it would be hard to do or they can't? If I was making shit and changing it significantly, I'd keep a backup or an archive of the old ones even if there was no initial plan to use it. Maybe I'm just a bit more meticulous but I doubt keeping that info on a drive is very expensive.

The problem with Sony was that their "progression" servers were just content locked servers. People wanted the game as it was back when they started playing but they got.. well you guys all know this. I think Blizz hasn't done a "progression" server because donig so kind of admits that you may have peaked.

Also there are technical challenges involved if they don't want to go just the SoE content locked path. I'm certain they have the old files but it isn't just as simple as running an older version fo the server. Users will need to have compatible clients and everything will be exposed to the same exploits from years back. The game map isn't even the same as numerous areas had to be re-designed for Cataclysm because when the game was made a lot of the areas were not intended to be seen or accessible from flying mounts.

None of this means it isn't doable, just there is more complexity then running old server code.