Parsing Agility?

[slowpoke68]

People say to put points into stamina which only results in a relatively few hit points at max level. I always wondered if higher agility were to increase your dodge rate or defense rate it might offset or be more valuable by hit point savings from getting hit less as opposed to the hit points added by stamina.

I remember when I made my first toon way back when, a monk, I put all my points into Agi because that is what everyone said you should do. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm guessing someone has parsed this out or it would be common knowledge that agi is more valuable, but interesting nonetheless.

[Baler]

AC shown on the titanium client is not equal to your AC on p99. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[ChooChoo Train]

Bard with lute and regen playing with and without AGI jewelry against same low lvl rogue mob just let that shit parse overnight.

[magnetaress]

AGI > Worn AC > HP if not tank

if warrior warn AC is able to be pushed to crazy levels

everyone is right what u see in the client is not to be believed its fake

the AC u get from AGI, while less in number than from worn AC behaves entirely different than the AC u get from worn AC u cant compare apples and oranges

buffed and agi ac is > all, that is why a spell with +14 AC is like adding literally 2x levels of mitigation to your character

feel free not believing me and do the parses

same with secondary slot ac it is more special than pants ac also iksars meagure innate scalie 15 ac buff is not considered worn ac for the sake of ac calculatins its the cooler betterer AC

the min maxers who play here and 'swear by classic' really have no idea what they are doing they just like seeing 'higher numbers'

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

level 1 dwarf warrior with 10 defence, 75 agi vs decaying dwarf skeleton

gets hit 91/253

ie 36% of attacks hit him.

level 1 elf warrior with 10 defence, 125 agi vs decaying dwarf skeleton

gets hit 59/143

ie 41% of attacks hit him.


Both characters maxed defence, no equipment on.

Small sample size, so poor signal : noise, but as a pilot it seems to throw the anomaly up that either the extra 50 agility the elf had actually made his avoidance worse or there is another factor (assuming not due to chance). Or perhaps something to do with how gamparse works out fights.

edit: I ran another parse for 125 agi 10 defence level 1 vs decaying dwarf skeleton, got 35/84 hits, again 41% hits. This time I counted the hits vs misses manually.

Gonna run a parse on the 75 agi dwarf again and see what I find. Little bit worried agi might be broken... it does seem the elf got hungry and thirsty whereas the dwarf did not...

This may warrant further, proper, investigation. With large sample sizes.

None of this addresses the potential increase to parry/block though. I'm far too lazy to test but I feel like I do block more with a higher agi value on my monk.

Originally Posted by drackgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah me and one of my fellow guildie monks found a weird thing.

the Exe hood which is 5ac +4 str +9 dex. gave us 5 ac. vs Black headband ac2 +2str, +3 dex +4 stm +4 cha + 1 int, +3agi + 4 hp.
When we'd take off hood and put on black headband we lost 5 ac.

Which makes no sense to me, as headband has 2 ac + agi. So shouldn't we only lost like 3ac or even less sense there is Agi on headband.

May also be weight related? Generally speaking the AC value on the paperdoll doesn't tell you much useful info.

[magnetaress]

All you are doing is testing avoidance agi does fuck all for avoidance. Every one has basically the same avoidance.

Now test mitigation or total damage taken.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All you are doing is testing avoidance agi does fuck all for avoidance. Every one has basically the same avoidance.

Now test mitigation or total damage taken.

It would be nice to find how negligible the effect on agi is for avoidance. Seems I'd need a way larger sample to get meaningful results.

As to mitigation, the below is meaningless due to small sample size, but here is how that decaying skeleton smacked down the empty inventory un armed unarmoured max defence level 1 warriors (dwarf and woodelf). The table shows the different damage values, how often they occurred, and what % of the hits were this damage.

75 Agi:

dmg |  f |   %
4   |  8 | 5.0
3   | 38 | 23.9
2   | 38 | 23.9
1   | 75 | 47.7


125 Agi:

dmg |  f |   %
4   |  4 |  8.5
3   | 11 | 23.4
2   | 11 | 23.4
1   | 21 | 44.7

Entertainingly as well as having better avoidance the dwarf also had better mitigation.

A statistician may disagree, I think at this point I have conclusively proved elves are pansies, and having 50 more agi than a dwarf does nothing to stop this.

[Kich867]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would be nice to find how negligible the effect on agi is for avoidance. Seems I'd need a way larger sample to get meaningful results.

As to mitigation, the below is meaningless due to small sample size, but here is how that decaying skeleton smacked down the empty inventory un armed unarmoured max defence level 1 warriors (dwarf and woodelf). The table shows the different damage values, how often they occurred, and what % of the hits were this damage.

75 Agi:

dmg |  f |   %
4   |  8 | 5.0
3   | 38 | 23.9
2   | 38 | 23.9
1   | 75 | 47.7


125 Agi:

dmg |  f |   %
4   |  4 |  8.5
3   | 11 | 23.4
2   | 11 | 23.4
1   | 21 | 44.7

Entertainingly as well as having better avoidance the dwarf also had better mitigation.

A statistician may disagree, I think at this point I have conclusively proved elves are pansies, and having 50 more agi than a dwarf does nothing to stop this.

Might be a lot easier to get this data with a cleric and a shaman friend, pull like 15-20 level 1 mobs, let them swing for like half an hour, get the occasional heal.

Unfortunately I only have my warrior on green else I would assist =/.

[fadetree]

AC is composed of two values : mitigation and avoidance. It shows as one number but internally it is handled separately. AGI affects only the avoidance component, so increasing AGI will make your displayed number go up, but the question is how the game actually handles avoidance internally. There's some real questions here - the overall effect, or lack of it, (or the possibility that it's actually negative on P99) might be hard to directly notice so there's no way to tell without some rigorous old school parsing.
Getting in the wayback machine and looking at old material from Ranger's Glade, Steel Warriors, and The Safehouse might provide some context, but of course we'd need to parse P99.

[DMN]

Anyone considering testing it should keep in mind a few quirks in other parts of EQ: When enemies green out/low blue it seems they are way more likely to not resist spells. It could be that agility too has similar functionality and that your avoidance is already at a maximum when fighting mobs on that lower end of the spectrum.

Try to use the exact same mob for all tests... a DWing enchanter/necro/mage pet would probably be ideal for saving on time/healing. They will simply give you more hits for less overall damage so it's less healing needed for the tester.

Try to get the pet and the tester to be the exact same level to eliminate as much level differential noise there might be the equation.

Strip tester naked for first test, and the second test only add agility buffs and any item that gives only agility or other stats but not AC. Shaman agility buff would obviously be great here. It would be ideal(but not necessary) if the tester had close to base 75 agility as possible, so you can create a greater relative agility discrepancy in the higher agility test.

I'd be curious of the results, but as I said before it's not really going to change much due to the limited itemization found in the game.