Wizard fix

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As long as we're fixing things let's make no rent bags leave their contents on your cursor instead of eating them.

On live they just turn into like 25 wt bags that are no drop so u need to resummon them.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if u ever seen a full on geared out lvl 60 wizard with like torpor level gears like the effort put in for epic, and all that stuff u would be like hmmm 'thats kind of a cool and interesting class'

problem is everyone remembers naked newbie wizards from like lvl 30 in guk lol

You should make wizard friends just as hard as u make torp shaman and enchanter/cleric friends

Instaport to sky necklace is an amazing get out of jail free card.

[Jibartik]

I have an idea make them more like rangers and rangers more like wizards.

[Gustoo]

Wizards have a lot of utility but a lot of it is shared by other classes.

They should at the very least have the only spell that provides invis and invis to undead, and the regular versions of those spells should be not stackable.

Player summoning would be a cool thing but combined with that kind of invis spell it might be way too easy to get people into dungeons.

I think they should have paladin level dps overall but consisting of more 50 percent mob HP execution style spells so they’re finishing mobs left and right with some kinda dice roll. It equals pally dps but all at once.

I love the wizard class but I’m happy to be one of the few.

[ReoDobbs]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, is it really that ridiculous? I still believe a petless magician > wizard levels 1-50. Nukes are practically the same. So the comparison is do you believe root is worth more than DS, Malo, Summoned Items.

No, it is completely ridiculous, almost every nuke hits for more and has more dpm by a significant margin. There's two different spans Mages go 10 levels between a nuke upgrade too. And yes I think snare, root, evac, teleport is worth more than DS, a worse shaman Malo, and summoned items (lol)

[Swish]

I'd like to meet an active group wizard that doesn't have an enchanter/bard/necro to CC.

Then the wizard uses their stuns and roots to CC mobs away from the main combat.


...but oh wait, netflix is better. Get outta here lazy wizards.

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by ReoDobbs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it is completely ridiculous, almost every nuke hits for more and has more dpm by a significant margin. There's two different spans Mages go 10 levels between a nuke upgrade too. And yes I think snare, root, evac, teleport is worth more than DS, a worse shaman Malo, and summoned items (lol)

Just to set the record straight, the only "malo" a mage gets that is a worse version of the shaman one is the unresistable one at the end of the line (Mala vs Malo). All others are the exact same spell. Mages simply get it a couple levels after Shaman.

...and, because I decided to start typing this response, I might as well go all in by comparing the nukes for everyone (based on the wiki, so ymmv):

If multiple ST nukes were learned in a single level, I chose the one with the higher dpm. In case of a tie, I chose the one with the higher damage.

Level 1 Nukes -
Mage: Burst of Flame (5/7 = 0.71 dpm)
Wizard: Shock of Frost (6/8 = 0.75 dpm)

Level 4 Nukes -
Mage: Burn (14/15 = 0.93 dpm)
Wizard: Shock of Fire (15/16 = 0.94 dpm)

Level 8 Nukes -
Mage: Flame Bolt (47/40 = 1.18 dpm)
Wizard: Fire Bolt (51/40 = 1.28 dpm)

Level 12 Nukes -
Mage: Nothing new, unless you count Ward Summoned (41/30 = 1.37 dpm)
Wizard: Shock of Lightning (83/60 = 1.38 dpm)

Level 16 Nukes -
Mage: Shock of Flame (97/70 = 1.39 dpm)
Wizard: Flame Shock (110/75 = 1.47 dpm)

Level 20 Nukes -
Mage: Bolt of Flame (156/105 = 1.49 dpm)
Wizard: Force Shock (179/120 = 1.49 dpm + interrupt)

Level 24 Nukes -
Mage: Shock of Spikes (176/110 = 1.60 dpm)
Wizard: Frost Shock (187/110 = 1.70 dpm)

Level 29 Nukes -
Mage: Nothing new, unless you count Dismiss Summoned (162/90 = 1.80 dpm)
Wizard: Inferno Shock (250/135 = 1.85 dpm)

Level 34 Nukes -
Mage: Cinder Bolt (333/175 = 1.90 dpm)
Wizard: Ice Shock (320/160 = 2.00 dpm)

Level 39 Nukes -
Mage: Nothing new, unless you count Expel Summoned (273/130 = 2.1 dpm)
Wizard: Lightning Shock (405/180 = 2.25 dpm)

Level 44 Nukes -
Mage: Shock of Swords (600/250 = 2.40 dpm)
Wizard: Force Strike (625/250 = 2.50 dpm + interrupt)
*A couple other things here... Mages get a DoT that does 600/240 = 2.50 dpm and Wizards get their first fire lure.

Level 49 Nukes -
Mage: Lava Bolt (810/300 = 2.70 dpm)
Wizard: Ice Comet (1120/400 = 2.80 dpm)

Levels 50-60 -

Mage: Get their first DD upgrade at 52 for 711/245 = 2.90 dpm with Char, get a low dpm (2.57) but high dps* (225) nuke at 54 with Scars of Sigil, get their second DoT 1010/265 = 3.81 dpm) at 55 with Wrath of the Elements, get their first** 3.00+ dpm nuke with Shock of Steel at 57 and finally cap out with their highest damage + most mana efficient nuke with Seeking Flame of Seukor (1024/320 = 3.20 dpm).
* This can be chain cast as the time it takes to click your GDC is enough to counteract the 0.25 second difference between cast time and recover time.
** An evocation-spec'd mage will be at 3.00+ dpm well before this, and Shock of Steel will be useless since it's a conjuration spell.

Wizard: Get their first 3.00+ dpm nuke at 51 with Draught of Fire (688/215 = 3.20 dpm) which is also a great dps nuke at 229. At 52 they get their ice lure. At 54 they get the magic-based version of Draught of Fire with Voltaic Draught. At 55, they get an interrupt added onto the it with Draught of Jiva as well as a fire lure on par with the ice lure from 52. At 57 they get their ice-based draught, which is an upgrade in efficiency as well (731/215 = 3.40 dpm). At 58, they get their magic-based lure. And finally at 60 they get their most efficient and hardest hitting nukes in Ice Spear of Solist (1200/300 = 4.00 dpm), Sunstrike (1615/450 = 3.59 dpm), and the bane spells (2000/450 = 4.44 dpm).

TLDR: ReoDobbs is right in that a wizard's nuke are (almost) always more damage and more efficient.

I think the biggest difference is that what a mage brings to the group is both passive and active, whereas a wizard is only active, but this argument seems to be about mages and wizards both nuking without a mage pet in the mix...

[Jimjam]

On the subject of nuke efficiency, and the DS magicians offer and segueying back to hopeless unclassic wishlisting for 'fixing wizards'...

O'Keil's Radiation is a level 4 wizard spell with a Damage Shield Seconds per mana equivalent to the 60 magician DS (about 30 - but admittedly it is much worse practically on account of only being 2 damage and not being a group buff).

The wizard receives an 'upgrade' with Velious at 34 (O'Keill's Flickering Flame) which doubles the damage per hit (from 2 to 4-5 depending on level), slightly increases the duration but costs 115 mana instead of 15 and keeps the fire resist at +10. It always felt pretty limp.

A part of my unclassic 'wizard fix' would be to make this spell actually feel like an upgrade, instead of being a worse damage shield second per mana than it's predecessor.

Clearly the design philosophy was against giving wizards a powerful single target damage shield - so I will respect that with my fix. The 29 magician DS has about 40 Damage Shield Seconds per mana, and 20 fire resist. I believe the 34 Velious Wizard DS should be similarly mana effective, if not so much damage per hit. As such, my suggestion is to up the duration of O'Keil's Flickering Flame from ~5 to 15 minutes at level 60.

This will make it more efficient than the level 4 version, roughly similar in efficiency to the 29 mage counterpart, but no more powerful per hit.

This isn't my be all and end all fix, but I think it is a good way to gently improve a spell which otherwise never gets used.

[starkind]

Wizard nuke dpm should be like dot efficiency since they are behind necromancer without pets, faer, mana regen..

Maybe one point under. 7 dpm, lowermiddps nuke at 60, plus harvest being 3x more efficient. A 30 second root which doesn't break early to damage and has like a 3 dpm damage component.

Wizards would be fine. They wouldn't be the most brokenly OP popular class.

[Kiithsa]

Personally I try not to get into the number crunching of it all. I have fun playing wizard and however much they lack in efficiency doesn't seem to affect me too much.

This is a game after all. Are you having fun? This is what matters