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  #71  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:24 PM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
BTW, ~40% of the US is obese.

Obesity is a comorbidity of COVID.

I suspect the IFR in US is HIGHER than many countries for this reason alone.

And of course, it's Donald Trump's fault so many Americans are suddenly overweight from 2016-2020 when this phenomenon was discovered.

I suggest required masking around feeding time for Americans to reduce their food intake. Make it nationwade.
It's only 8% higher than Canada and 4% higher than mexico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] It isnt obesity's fault!

Edit: Woah I just wanted to confirm and TIL New Zeeland is like right behind us with obesity and they have like 1 covid death :P

But they have closed borders and that is something dems would have not been ok with and Id be shaking my fist at them about that if they were in charge hehe

Edit edit: Also trump is obease and he'll be fine.
Last edited by Jibartik; 10-04-2020 at 11:33 PM..
  #72  
Old 10-05-2020, 12:11 AM
Nocht Nocht is offline
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OP is 100% on point.
  #73  
Old 10-05-2020, 12:27 AM
7thGate 7thGate is offline
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If you can't do anything about a disease other than live with it, you have to make a choice between deciding to live your life and risking death or hiding away. Back in the early 1900's, measles was about as fatal as COVID is now and it was so contagious basically everyone just had to endure it as a rite of passage to be a living adult. Go back further, and you had to fight off multiple deadly diseases to make it to adulthood.

There wasn't really anything you could do about it, so people just lived with it or not depending on how it went. If we didn't know how to make vaccines, then this whole process makes no sense and we should just get it over with, get infected, most of us fight it off and then we go on with out lives mourning the dead.

But we do know how to make vaccines. There's multiple active vaccines developed that are undergoing testing right now. Someone is going to build a functional vaccine and this disease is going to get shut down hard by science. What we need to not do is infect the whole world before we get to that point.

Because you're right, this isn't actually that bad in terms of loss of life by comparison to something like smoking. But its not that bad because people are actively fighting it with social distancing, masks and other measures instead of ignoring it, and its already worse than the flu by a good measure. We ignore this completely and its going to blow up; you get a 3% fatality rate on the whole world, you're going to kill 250 million people. Let's not do that when we can just take some precautions, validate that one of the vaccines works and is safe, immunize, then move on.
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  #74  
Old 10-05-2020, 12:43 AM
douglas1999 douglas1999 is offline
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Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If you can't do anything about a disease other than live with it, you have to make a choice between deciding to live your life and risking death or hiding away. Back in the early 1900's, measles was about as fatal as COVID is now and it was so contagious basically everyone just had to endure it as a rite of passage to be a living adult. Go back further, and you had to fight off multiple deadly diseases to make it to adulthood.

There wasn't really anything you could do about it, so people just lived with it or not depending on how it went. If we didn't know how to make vaccines, then this whole process makes no sense and we should just get it over with, get infected, most of us fight it off and then we go on with out lives mourning the dead.

But we do know how to make vaccines. There's multiple active vaccines developed that are undergoing testing right now. Someone is going to build a functional vaccine and this disease is going to get shut down hard by science. What we need to not do is infect the whole world before we get to that point.

Because you're right, this isn't actually that bad in terms of loss of life by comparison to something like smoking. But its not that bad because people are actively fighting it with social distancing, masks and other measures instead of ignoring it, and its already worse than the flu by a good measure. We ignore this completely and its going to blow up; you get a 3% fatality rate on the whole world, you're going to kill 250 million people. Let's not do that when we can just take some precautions, validate that one of the vaccines works and is safe, immunize, then move on.
Not everyone has the luxury of waiting for a vaccine. That's the whole objection to lockdowns. I don't give a shit about wearing a mask, it doesn't bother me at all, I care about the collateral effects of the drastic measures that have been put in place. They made sense for about the first month, it's a novel virus that we did not yet understand. 7 months later, we understand it much better and know that it is overwhelmingly non-fatal.

Other people are dying from other things now at higher rates because so many healthcare resources have been allocated to fight covid-19. Many, many businesses that people worked hard to build are shuttered for good. Alcoholism is way up, suicides are going way up. People are dying as a result of this virus without even being infected by it. That's the point.

Vaccines also are not just guaranteed magic medicine. Many vaccines need to be re-administered anually to achieve a majority efficacy, and even the common flu vaccine only provides about 70% protection. These restrictions would make sense on balance if it were ebola that were spreading like wildfire. A slightly worse flu does not warrant these measures.
  #75  
Old 10-05-2020, 01:23 AM
Trexller Trexller is offline
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Originally Posted by Nocht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
OP is 100% on point.
  #76  
Old 10-05-2020, 01:55 AM
Castle2.0 Castle2.0 is offline
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Worth a read: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...arios.html#box

Best Current Estimate from CDC of COVID IFR
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDC
COVID Infection Fatality Rate (if you get it, what is your chance of dying)
0-19 years: 0.00003
20-49 years: 0.0002
50-69 years: 0.005
70+ years: 0.054
Then compare it to flu IFR by age range from https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-age-group/

If 1 million school kids get COVID, 30 will die.
If 1 million school kids get Flu, 10 will die

If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got COVID, 1680 would die.
If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got Flu, 560 would die.

OPEN SCHOOLS!

If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got COVID, 200 will die.
If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got Flu, 20 will die.

If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got COVID, 24,000 will die.
If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got Flu, 2,400 will die.

OPEN BUSINESSES!

38,000 people die every year in car accidents, yet we still drive cars? Absolute worst POSSIBLE case scenario (i.e. everyone gets it) of opening schools and businesses is less deaths than people who die in car accidents annually.

The people that are dying are old and have comorbidities. So let's protect the elderly and those with comorbidities. This comes down to the local level of how people run retirement homes and individual decisions of at-risk people.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey... if all the schoolkids and working people get it, won't we have herd immunity? Food for thought. We'll still have 300,000 dying every year of obesity and 38,000 from cars, but much lower COVID deaths.
Last edited by Castle2.0; 10-05-2020 at 02:06 AM..
  #77  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:56 AM
GinnasP99 GinnasP99 is offline
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[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Might seem harsh, but lots of humans dying (i.e. the total population of Earth going DOWN) is a GOOD thing. There's only so much chicken and fresh water to go around.
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  #78  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:57 AM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Worth a read: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...arios.html#box

Best Current Estimate from CDC of COVID IFR


Then compare it to flu IFR by age range from https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-age-group/

If 1 million school kids get COVID, 30 will die.
If 1 million school kids get Flu, 10 will die

If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got COVID, 1680 would die.
If every single school aged child (56M total) in America got Flu, 560 would die.

OPEN SCHOOLS!

If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got COVID, 200 will die.
If 1 million prime age working people (20-49) got Flu, 20 will die.

If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got COVID, 24,000 will die.
If every single prime age working person (~120M total) got Flu, 2,400 will die.

OPEN BUSINESSES!

38,000 people die every year in car accidents, yet we still drive cars? Absolute worst POSSIBLE case scenario (i.e. everyone gets it) of opening schools and businesses is less deaths than people who die in car accidents annually.

The people that are dying are old and have comorbidities. So let's protect the elderly and those with comorbidities. This comes down to the local level of how people run retirement homes and individual decisions of at-risk people.

Pretty straight forward.

But hey... if all the schoolkids and working people get it, won't we have herd immunity? Food for thought. We'll still have 300,000 dying every year of obesity and 38,000 from cars, but much lower COVID deaths.
I cant believe that you think you're going to blow the lid off this conspiracy by counting up stuff from articles on an elf sim forum.

edit: ugh i gotta edit, it what part of chosing to be obease is one thing, but you walking by me coughing like an asshole, is not my choice? and if you say leaving my home is a choice, so help me god, you dont get to tell people when to stay home if the entire point of your argument is its not fair people get to say when you get to stay home! ARG you make me so mad castle!!!!
Last edited by Jibartik; 10-05-2020 at 03:26 AM..
  #79  
Old 10-05-2020, 03:09 AM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Originally Posted by GinnasP99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Might seem harsh, but lots of humans dying (i.e. the total population of Earth going DOWN) is a GOOD thing. There's only so much chicken and fresh water to go around.
Idk.. I never believed over population will be a problem. Personally.

There are a lot of sound arguments that seem to indicate that overpopulation isn't really an issue.

If you look at crowded epicenters in 3rd world countries it looks scary, but we're farm from that being a global image of earth, and by far I mean, like hundreds of years from then. Like, many many many many generations. But by then we'll be over populating mars!

And idk with genetic engineering we'll be making rice that has as much nutritional value as a full meal and feed the world.

It's gonna be like startrek. Not the good utopia TNG one, but the new picard and discovery crappy ones, where everyone vapes and drinks, and swears, and has a bad attitude, but it's still startrek.

So personally, I dont overpop is really the spooky beast people like to make it out to be.

I could be wrong though, I'm just saying me personally, I'm dubious.

Sidenote: Im literally watching a documentary from 1977 about how the end of days is immenent and its all in prophecy and its hosted by Orsen Wells. And its like, lol this is literally the same stuff everyone says now and none of what they're saying happened. https://youtu.be/HDnOzycaHpM

Right now orsen wells is like "The number of earthquakes that have increased in scale have increased 10 fold in the last 5 years." And this dude in a denum jumpsuit with a goldne star of david medalian over his hary chest is like "jesus said in the bible that events of weather will become stronger and become more frequent!"

And theyre talking about the 6 day war, and the temple of david and all the tension in the middle east, gasoline shortages, famine and deaths from natural disasters being record high.

lol I swear, I hear stuff like that and I just have to remember: We aint ever gonna stop, ever. We are going to march and toil, on and on for another 100,000 years, and you're gonna pay taxes to someone till the day you die if you lived to be a billion.
Last edited by Jibartik; 10-05-2020 at 03:38 AM..
  #80  
Old 10-05-2020, 03:28 AM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Hey castle, if you drive like a ahole you get arrested and if hit me I GET TO SUE you in court, so that counter argues your other car argument too!!!

So far everything you have said we have to do something to stop deaths for if we believe in social distancing and masks, we literally do a whole lot of shit to stop deaths for.

It's like that old line from the gun debate, "Cars are dangerous too, so what should we do make you get a license and register your car with the state?"

And like I said a million times, risk vs reward, the risk vs reward is worth the shut down for covid, but not for any thing else you suggsted.

Now that you know that is why can you stop pretending that is not why?

We can/could have/will stop covid, we had leadership that bungled it and now you're upset about the economy, well that was TRUMPS fault, his job was to make the economy stable, and he has made it chaos, with all this "its not real crap" people trying to open stores when they shouldn't, mortgages not frozen when they should be, stimulus not given to those that needed it most.

If you care about the "state of the economy" then why is all you've contributed is conspiracy theory? Its so transparent, if you're anti mask, you're just anti establishment, just like antivaxers are IMO

How do we fix the economy? "open it" what happens when people get sick "ignore them" that's litearly your plan? NO WAY!
Last edited by Jibartik; 10-05-2020 at 03:44 AM..
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