RAID SUSPENSION RESOLUTIONS

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have we ever tried no gm involvement? Like ffa raid zones..trains kill steals, everything goes, 500 ppl camped at raid spawn, no petitons allowed?
Go total mad max eq and see what happens, maximum toxicity till it corrects itself and everyone finally behaves? mwahahaha [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is what no-CSR VP was during Kunark, and imo it was the most fun the raid scene has ever been. The raid scene was actually fresh and fun because guilds constantly altered their strategies to get a leg up and their competition guessing. It would be a lot different in ToV though due to the increased mob hp and clicky nerf.

That said, they should 100% bring back no-CSR VP. Training Hosh & friends into your competition's raid and wiping 30+ of them was incredibly fun.

[Tune]

what is the major thrill blue-ing it up in 2020?

grow a pair, bring your guilds to red and fight for your pixels

less gms needed, problem solved

[Beldan4]

In one week you can have a lvl 60 on red (hard, but not impossible). NToV hasn't died since they rooted mobs (due to lack of bodies), Tunare (never killed), AoW (not killed since after the first year). Is there pvp? yes. Is there toxicity? yes. Is it worse than blue? Why don't you ask the 20+ blue people that have come over here to stay in the last month.

[Toomuch]

I don't think anyone really likes where we're at right now, I hope we can start there, and all agree on that. It feels like one of those overdone moments in film where there's like 2 gangs, a group of cops, and a mercenary group that all arrive at the same location at the same time, all after the same thing, and everyone has guns drawn, everyone's yelling at everyone else to put their guns down, and then the cliche moment happens where someone fires the first shot, mayhem ensues, and almost everyone dies. So basically that's where we were, and Menden shut it down. Good for him, let's try and fix this.

I kinda like Raev's idea, but it's a little complicated. Maybe that's what we need, or need to work towards. I kinda like what we've been doing in Plane of Fear with Golems, with some elements of competition, but still spreading the wealth around a little bit for the "little guy".

I also kinda like this gem from Raev's "League Promotion System" post -

Originally Posted by Walex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must have misunderstood what goes on here. This is P99. More time spent staring at walls is better because that's how the game was meant to be played. Why politely rotate mobs 50/50 when you can instead poopsock them for hours and get 50/50?

For everyone's sakes, players and management included, I'm starting to think we need to TOTALLY flip the script right now. I'm thinking we need some kind of set timeframe as a trial period for fixing the server, maybe a trial of 3 months or so, where we rotate waaaay more things, maybe starting with just about everything, so we can simply play nice. Then, as agreed upon by guild leadership that WILL work together on this in the UN channel, we'll re-introduce elements of competition until the correct balance is struck.

My point/idea here is that I think we should try coming at this starting from the complete other side of the competition spectrum, where we begin with (almost?) everything rotated, and then implementing things like Raev's "indirect competition" as we go, and then eventually introducing more direct competition on mobs/zones, as agreed upon by leadership, IF we prove we can play nice. Maybe the updates/changes to approved competition go month by month, baby steps toward more competition.

And maybe, just maybe, if we can prove that we can play nice enough, we can request from Rogean that more quakes happen, or possibly even certain era-level content get re-added to the game. (More content to spread around would help ease the supply/demand issue).

And then if this "3 Month Play Nice" trial just totally fails, well then we can just reset back to square 1, where we're at right now.

Thoughts?

[Clazxiss]

Now that Green has been released, which offers a Norrath that purists love, the time for custom changes to Blue and Red is now! Rogean, Menden, and Galach please offer instances to the blue and red servers. End the reign of 1 guild dominance!

[kaizersoze]

Originally Posted by HitsmeChanter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you've clearly read one of my ideas, but that's besides the point. The entire reason that freedom and AG teamed was so that they could be competitive with the Riot Zerg. For what a year now, the only option that players that wanted pixels had was to join the zerg. The Freedom / AG alliance has been chiseling away at that requirement, to allow more options for players.

Your suggestion is just merely relying on the numbers of the players that riot has been hoarding for a year because there was no other option. With an FTE race, there is skill involved and it shifts the focus away from just a pure numbers vantage to instead a who can better prepare to win prospect.

Again, this was just one of my suggestions... I had a list of ideas, including things like:

- a player run council to prejudge petitions for the GM staff (with GM oversight or a GM thumbs up or down to prevent corruption)
- extremely painful penalties for both rule violators and failed petitioners (1 week total raid bans, etc).

You realise harsher penalties is also outlined in my suggestion, for both guilds and invididuals involved in said transgressions lol. I do agree petitions need to be less often and harsher though, I dont think concede 2 should be a thing. Though if we are going to increase how harsh they are, and limit how many are submitted, if there was a hard cap on one submission every week with all issues in it, it can portray patterns of behavior as a whole and the guilds responsible can be hit harder for both cry wolf and those who are guilty.

Another note with FTE races - if you think you -can- engage a dragon within some magical timeframe, you theoretically COULD footrace for it. But if you trained a guild clearing for it, you'd still be liable for said train. The only difference here is the amount of time set. What is FEASIBLE for a Freedom engage for example? an hour? hour and a half? How long would it take you to coth, do the minimal clearing necessary, assign kites etc, and engage a dragon?

AG had gotten plenty of dragons in ToV when I was a member in the last like 2 years. Sure, it wasn't all the dragons, but there were still Vulaks they got. They could kill Tunare on their own. They could do ring war, ST, etc. The point of making them separate for the sake of raid slots is what would stop Riot from just splintering into 3 guilds, taking 3 slots, and just teaming all the time for them? Nothing. They could theoretically triple dip. Then it would still be crying about Riot and friends having superior numbers and getting more loot than anyone else via rotation. Is that better?

[Naethyn]

P99 has a very lord of the rings feel to it in that over time everything gradually becomes less magical and the items of old become more valuable over time. Lets not change this.

[Hideousclaw]

unrooting will fix issue A but create issue B. Pathing was pretty decent back when they were unrooted, pathing now is hot garbage. If Lord Fleshlight moves slightly in the wrong direction people will micromanage it into oblivion and create more petitions. AG/Riot/Freedom will nitpick all of those nuances to hell. Unrooting would be fun, I love and miss Unrooted ToV, but its not the solution to end all solutions, and if you've convinced yourself of that then I want to sell you some bargain bin beach-front property.

[Stroboo]

I think it is clear that the GMs are requesting that the Raid entities change their perspective to look at the opposition as an equal who is trying to follow the rules and not as an enemy that needs to be removed, but that is just my opinion. how to convey this to your opposition in a sincere way and put it into application is more difficult i would think, but i see this as the requested avenue

my solution would be pretty simple:
What if you were not allowed to kill the following mobs twice in a row

Vulak, Doze, KT & Dain.

These are the main prizes anyway and fuel much of the toxicity imo, and this would not be a rotation, but more of a restriction and easy to track....

Best solution i can think of overall would be the change how ToV works from a programming level - make all of NTOV repop when Vulak spawns similair to CT in Fear except make is so none of the other dragons spawn before vulak, so ALL of ToV spawns when Vulak spwans. Then there would be mobs for everyone every week.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Toomuch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I kinda like Raev's idea, but it's a little complicated.

The general feedback was that my system was too complicated. I understand that we all have limited brain power and don't like reading other people's nonsense, but have you compared my proposal with the current raid rules? Not to mention there are specific raid rules for another handful of zones, and the pages and pages of text people write lawyerquesting them?

Anyway, the key point of that system is "measure the amount of time it takes a guild to kill their target and allocate pixels accordingly". There are plenty of ways to do it if you don't like my particular proposal. But this is the only proposal I have seen that:

1. Virtually eliminates lawyerquest & all of the negative emotion involved. It's easy for the staff to check when NPCs actually died and verify times if necessary.
2. Does not end up in a 57 guild rotation for Venril Sathir.
3. Keeps some level of competitive pressure. Can you imagine Detoxx ranting in discord because the F/AG pull team brought in two Plane of Growth minis at once and cost them 10 minutes on their Tunare clear time?