Something Detrimental For PvP Deaths

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since this is indeed an "item driven game", it is only natural to feel the need to farm the best items in order to "win". Since there would be no fear of losing your precious gear, people would now be more inclined to spend the extra time farming the best gear possible, which means more PVE....and ultimately LESS PVP.

People would be less inclined to spend hours and hours farming a piece of gear, if it could then be stolen from them with 1 death in an item loot system. Item loot would then encourage more questing, to obtain more no drop gear, which gets people moving from zone to zone, which gets people running into each other. So item loot eventually leads to MORE PVP and less PVE. Discuss.

I'm sorry, but this is massively flawed logic. With no item loot, when you get an item, you're guaranteed to keep it. There's no risk of losing it or having to replace it by farming plat or trying for another rare spawn. With item loot, having to replace gear means having to do more PvE.

Also, item loot DOES encourage people to play with less gear...which is why they role naked casters, which totally defeats the purpose of having item loot to begin with. And let's be serious, there aren't nearly enough quests for no drop items at the low and mid levels.

I understand that some old school Rallos guys like item loot, but it's seriously a total non-starter here. More than any other rule, it's a total dealbreaker for tons of people. Adding item loot to the server means you pretty much cut your potential player base in half, if not more, especially with people considering coming over from Blue. Item loot is simply a recipe for another dead server. EQ Devs realized it was a bad rule, which is why it was never replicated on the other 3 PvP servers, and isn't even on the grief paradise of Red 99 today.

[Thrilla]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't like exp loss and championed the cause of removing it. If this is something players want back, you'll have to convince me of why and I'll re-evaluate it.

Having played on Rallos, I'm on the pro-item loot team.

People that claim to see the future say no one will play with item loot. Despite me not believing them, there are a variety of ways to implement it that we discussed on the stream. People played on other servers than coin-only teams and if possible, we should take the best parts of all of the servers.

Choice of 1 item, droppable. Not primary/secondary/ranged.
In bags? Not in bags? Could also make bagged loot droppable and the primary 8 inventory slots safe areas. Meaning if you sacrificed a bag slot to place an item there, it would be safe from looting. Alternately, you could make the items you're actually wearing safe from looting and inventoried droppables lootable.



Could make it non-armor, non-weapon pieces in general. Could make it earrings, rings, necklaces only.. on and on. We are not limited to the classic implementations of the original servers.



Casters do not respawn with mana.

If you do item loot I would hope that resists are tweaked BEFORE any item loot is implemented. May I suggest RZ type only non NO-DROP and not primary/secondary/offhand. Also nothing from bags. Even then I still think it is too hardcore for this population and will make PvP even duller, back in the day people generally didn't care about dying as much as they do in such a small community.

On RZ I'd wager 75-80% of the population ran around in NODROP only gear, the top tier PvPers went full gear because the resist system rewarded the risk vs reward to partial a spell vs possibly losing an item but could tip the scale of a fight. Resists have to be like Live PvP if you want item-loot to succeed otherwise just expect a bunch of naked ass people never wearing the gear and engaging only in zerg-like PvP where they feel they absolutely will win and won't take risks at all becuz of the thought of losing an item.

If you can replicate Live resists and pull it off it definitely adds another fun layer to the game, loved watching people run away as they bagged every single item starting with their robe if they were a caster lol. On Live it also rewarded risk takers, was like playing the lottery if you can pull off a quick gank in a raid force and loot a Trak BP/Legs cause they thought they were safe and didn't have the time to bag it. The idea has a lot of upside, but I feel the smallish population will make it harder to succeed as it did on Live. It also promotes more fatalities in the sense that if 2 people are going toe to toe and both are at risk of dying, they both may stick around becuz of the gamble of the item loot where as now people just b-line for the zone. Again I feel all the upside w/ item loot is completely dependant on the PvP resist system being reliable.

[Billbike]

Coin loot.

Anything farther than that is a deterant.

[Bazia]

leader board great motivator for most

you play like shit its recorded

[big league chew]

permadeath + electric shock
ZAAAAAp

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't like exp loss and championed the cause of removing it. If this is something players want back, you'll have to convince me of why and I'll re-evaluate it.

Having played on Rallos, I'm on the pro-item loot team.

People that claim to see the future say no one will play with item loot. Despite me not believing them, there are a variety of ways to implement it that we discussed on the stream. People played on other servers than coin-only teams and if possible, we should take the best parts of all of the servers.

Choice of 1 item, droppable. Not primary/secondary/ranged.
In bags? Not in bags? Could also make bagged loot droppable and the primary 8 inventory slots safe areas. Meaning if you sacrificed a bag slot to place an item there, it would be safe from looting. Alternately, you could make the items you're actually wearing safe from looting and inventoried droppables lootable.



Could make it non-armor, non-weapon pieces in general. Could make it earrings, rings, necklaces only.. on and on. We are not limited to the classic implementations of the original servers.



Casters do not respawn with mana.

I would patch in a set of low, mid and high level no drop gear. That way we would establish a threshold which you cant go below. Something like the halloween 2001 set

[big league chew]

yeh and mounts
and AAs
and instances & augs
and uhhhhh hookers

[Handpartytowel]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, but this is massively flawed logic.

actually old pvp's statements aligned with my experience with item loot.

item loot is amazing. it makes the game scary / exciting beyond any other gaming i have ever experienced. it worked great in eq and uo.

it would basically solve the #1 problem bitched about on r99 immediately, which is that there is nothing to do unless you are in nihilium. small organized groups that dont have enough people to contest trakanon, could still get trakanon loots by jacking up xp groups in kc. then nilly would be forced to send the a squad on a manhunt to get their shit back, meanwhile being constantly afraid of losing even more of their hard earned pixels.

interestingly this also fixes the #1 complaint of people IN nihilium which is: why the fuck am i wasting my time raiding dracoliche #472 when i got my bcg in janurary of last year? good news, while thrilla was out pvping people in heresy all day that were guerrilla warfare fucking up our apps and alts, he picked up mrylokar legs but lost his bcg. he needs to go to this raid to replenish his pixels before going out and having awesome, meaningful pvp all day tomorrow.

yes some people roll around on naked wizards. how is that different from here, where half the pvp kills on the server are by wizards? dont want to risk your paladins fbss to a naked wizard? play a naked wizard. want to absolutely buttfuck naked wizards 3v1? play a geared melee. (this is of course assuming someone implements some kind of resist check).

the whole bagging thing is fixed very simply by coding it to loot wearable items in the persons bags as well.

im ok with the idea of limiting the lootable slots to say earrings, rings, neck and helm, + a defined set of clickies like gate pots, cure pots, wands etc. these are basically all resist boost / pvp oriented items that wont ruin your ability to go xp. you dont get ganked into complete nudity, and melees haste items are safe. this + the same items being lootable from bags would provide a decent level of safety from ultimate grief + prevent bagging.

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all that being said, i dont have very high hopes for item loot being implemented since many are against it or not willing to try in the first place.

on xp loss:

xp loss was fine in classic. it became retarded 51+ when the penalty became 70 times worse in terms of time required xping to make back the loss. make it scale so that the xp loss is always equivalent to about 4 solo'd dark blue mobs.

reward the killer with half of that xp, (split among group so healers get some love). this gives an incentive to pvp, an incentive to not go for the intentional xp death, and is a net loss so you cant exploit it to transfer all your xp from one char to another. make some kind of cap so a lvl 1 chain killing a 60 is not a valid way to level a new toon.

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one last thought on the subject, a system i have posted before, but still like:

implement a custom vendor that sells pvp crystals for plat, and another vendor that sells consumable pvp oriented items for crystals [lava diamond, tash/malo wands, targetable grow mushroom, no blind shadow step pot, 4 slot instant junkbuff pot, manasieve wand, spirit of cheetah pelt, lute of highsun, dmf pot, fang of rabies, ...]. you can utilize the unused ldon currency spot in your inventory for this mechanic. make these expensive so it is a legit plat sink.

* the pvp crystals have no weight, and cannot be banked.
* when you kill someone else, you can loot all of their crystals up to how many you have on you.
* one of the crystal bought items can be looted from a slain enemy's corpse. (regardless of how many crystals you have)

this should accomplish a few things:
- higher risk/reward for pvp, while not as soul crushing as item loot
- system is opt in. if you want to be safe, dont buy crystals. unlike running around as a naked caster in item loot, you stand to gain only as much as you put on the table. conversely if youre a big dick box legend with 100k crystals, some scrub with 50 crystals and a gank squad doesnt get to loot everything, but it still doubles their pile.
- gives real value to plat to foster healthy economy
- want a high stakes duel with someone talking shit? instead of calling them out for char deletion which no one has ever gone through with ever, go buy 10k plat worth of crystals and meet at the flagpole after school.

a note on the items - i would either not have, or temper instant gib items like conflag and golem wands, and instant get away items like gate and da idol by making them lore, giving a cast time and making them expensive. obviously all of the fine tuning minutia would be up for debate.

[Handpartytowel]

yes that was a big wall. u can thank chipotle and coffee for a lot of time on the shitter to think about this thread.

tldr: implement SZ ruleset exactly on new server, RZ ruleset exactly on current red server.

[RoguePhantom]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

leader board great motivator for most

you play like shit its recorded

^^^^^


A REAL Leaderboard, with points, historical, searchable records will be huge.

The SZ LEaderboard, and able to see who was best at which time, was awesome.

People would brag all the time about topping the boards, no one cared who cleared the planes if their guild was at the bottom of the weekly point standings.