most underpowered class in game?

[Fammaden]

Rangers really have the most awesome hybrid toolkit, its just overshadowed as a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none by the bard, which is essentially a broken OP class in some phases of the game. Paladins are stacked with tools that many overlook as well. Really SK is kinda the lamest hybrid IMO, despite its popularity. A lot less diversity, but of course having FD and snare goes a LONG way.

[zillabunny]

It's warrior

[socialist]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From a pure mechanics perspective, I would say a Wizard is a better class than a Druid, simply because Wizards get to keep their full kit in all zones, where Druids lose a lot of their kit in Dungeons.

You really overstate how much a druid loses from being indoors. It's, what, Harmony and SoW and a couple of totally inconsequential mid-level nuke spells? Harmony obviously matters, but it's hardly the primary function of the class. In groups, the fundamental purpose of the druid class is to be an okayish healer who isn't totally useless in case a better healer joins the group and removes the need for the druid's healing. That's pretty much it. They have that weird little niche carved out, the one where you can tolerate having one of them in the group even if there's also a cleric, just because druids can do some damage and be ready with emergency heals if the situation calls for it. And if you can't find a cleric, the druid's healing is good enough on its own to get some measure of grinding going, even if it leaves a lot to be desired.

[socialist]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rangers really have the most awesome hybrid toolkit, its just overshadowed as a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none by the bard, which is essentially a broken OP class in some phases of the game. Paladins are stacked with tools that many overlook as well. Really SK is kinda the lamest hybrid IMO, despite its popularity. A lot less diversity, but of course having FD and snare goes a LONG way.

I've never actually agreed with the notion that the bard is a jack-of-all-trades. I mean, that particular phrase was used by the developers themselves to describe the class, and printed in the manual and shit, which is why it lives on to this day; but if we look at the actual jobs that a bard can do, they're not particularly versatile. A bard can't tank, heal or DPS. It's basically a puller and CC class, with some buffing and mana sustain thrown in. If we look at it in terms of actual group roles, there's only a few classes that can fill more than one to any meaningful extent, and bard certainly isn't among them.

To gauge the versatility of a class, take any given group with one of that class in it already and then add another member of the same class who has to take up a different role. How happy are you with that? In the bard's case, nobody in their right mind would ever want two of them in the same group. Meanwhile, you can have a perfectly serviceable group with two rangers in it, and they can be filling two different roles.

The versatility of bards is generally overrated. They have a lot of different types of abilities, but the vast majority of them are pointless garbage that never gets used. When you get right down to it, there's really just a handful of bard songs that are ever called for in a typical grouping environment. Haste, mana regen, Selo if outdoors, lull if pulling, mez in exp groups, resist songs in raids, and I guess slow if there's no other slower. That's 98% of what a bard exists for, and they don't have the kind of versatility where you could have two of them in a group and feel fine about it.

The class was designed in spirit to have a bit of everything, but it's not as if anybody genuinely considers the bard to have any relevant melee capabilities, or tanking, or damage-dealing. Having a long list of ability types doesn't mean much if most of them are either weak as piss or serve no particular purpose in ordinary gameplay. Many aspects of the bard class are comparable to a car with two wheels--technically it's better than a card with no wheels, but it's still not a usable car. Having dual wield but no double attack means your melee output is irrelevant, having plate armor with garbage hit points and defensive skillcaps means you're not really tanky, etc.

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by Heywood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mages have their place in raids.


Thus proving my point that rangers are the most underpowered throughout the Classic - Velious timeline.


Thank you for coming to my TED talk, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Rangers have their place in raids too. CoP on the melee and they're the speedbump of choice for tank transitions.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rangers have their place in raids too... they're the speedbump of choice for tank transitions.

I feel like WS is consistently undersold on the forums. It's amazing for all sorts of situations--engages, tanks unexpectedly dying, picking up random trash, etc. It's tank any mob in the game for 18 seconds guaranteed. Basically a save the raid every 72 minutes button.

Deftdance, Nimble and Voiddance are also great, but WS is the longest lasting and Rangers can pick up aggro at the drop of a hat.

Additionally, Rangers are like most of a rogue DPS wise esp. when geared and like it or not, good Ranger-only gear drops.

[Fammaden]

Still starts to feel like a one trick pony in raiding for the most part though, at least there's so few and CotP is so good that usually you can slip by not being told to play a cleric bot when there's no ranger bump needed. But there's very often bumping needed or at least desired.

Despite the value, its just a boring class for most people on raids, but way more useful than SK in high end raiding for sure

[Cen]

Every class has a place in the game where it is fantastic, and places that it dreads. I can generally fabricate a situation that every class really hates to be in where others have a slightly better time, though some classes of course also can uniquely do something that no other can in terms of content too. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've always felt like druids suck ass outside of porting and PL. Heals are the weakest of the healers. Sustained damage in groups is ass. Raids ur just a crappy spot healer with 1 buff 1 debuff?

Animal charm DPS in Fear, Kael, Sky, etc. IIRC revultant rats used to be incorrectly classified as animals and those were used for DPS as well. Also, no other class can turn off the rain, manipulating the environment, zone-wide, to improve visibility/QOL for other players.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

rangers ... in a chain pulling xp group almost definitely output more dps than a druid due to not having significant mana constraints.

Not if there's something for the druid to charm. If a class has any form of charm, it is closer to being overpowered than under.

[Jimjam]

Shaman pets are classified as animals, so druids can take spite golem pets in fear and caller of sathir pets in KC, even if it is mostly a novelty.

Druids are great in overgeared groups where tanking can be shared as everyone is a beefcake, which really synergises with group regen. In these groups not every mob needs a slow which synergises well with damage shield.

Was in a group like this at the weekend, pulling like 5 lvl 50 mobs at a time thru the back wall of RCY and it was no problem and great xp (enc, war, war, ranger, monk, druid, max level 56). No deaths just chain kills of knights/protectors, bodyguards, hands and occasional decayed mobs.

Also shout out to Fistii who taught me some RCY pulls I didn’t know how to safely achieve previously, great job!