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#1
09-25-2020, 06:19 PM
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The Ultimate Guide to Bone Knights!
Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale... a tale of a fateful strength, that started from the noble gnomes, regardless of their length!
And that strength isss.... bone knighting! I have been gettin some questions on a guide for what to do as a bone knight. What kinda equipment? What race (gnome)? How do you battle?! Well! I'll share my great gnome knowledge, and you too shall achieve great power. ............................. Race Well, first off the primary thing you is lookin for is dex ... then a little strength can help, or int. It probably isn't worth it for stamina, since even at level 60 you will only get 2.4 HP per point of stamina. It can help some, but dex helps increase DPS (especially with the variety of proc weapons a necro gets). RACE...............STR....STA.....AGI.....DEX....W IS......INT.....CHA.....BONUS Gnome..............60......70.......85......95.... ...67.......108.....60.........30 Iksar.................70......70.......90......95. ......80........85......55.........30 Dark Elf.............60......65.......90......85....... 83.......109.....60.........30 Erudite..............60......70.......70......80.. .....83.......117.....70.........30 Human..............75......75.......75......85.... ...75........85......75.........30 Now, some people theorize that iksars is best. They get a sizable AC boost at level 60 (about 40-50ac), and some nice regen boost! (a difference of 8 hp a tick standing at level 60...and 11 hp a tick sitting). It's nice... BUT, let us consider gnomes. RACE...............STR....STA.....AGI.....DEX....W IS......INT.....CHA.....BONUS Gnome..............60......70.......85......95.... ...67.......108.....60.........30 Iksar.................70......70.......90......95. ......80........85......55.........30 As you can see, gnomes got the same dex... and 23 (!!!!) more starting int! That means a gnome can throw 25 points (maximum) into dex at the start, giving them a whoppin 120 dex, and an iksar would have to throw that into int just to be the same. Effectively, while iksars get their AC + regen, they lose a +25 bonus to dex or int. Gnomes also got superior peepers (able to see through walls is EXTREEEMELY useful for checking spawns and targeting and not getting lost). A gnome used to the power of gnome peepers just has a passive knowledge of everything around them, because they are so used to wall-checking everything. Gnomes also get a blanket faction bonus with most things. That means they can faction up a lot easier (if they are even KOS) and be welcome in all the cities.... including evil cities with skeleton form. I even took the time to become non-kos to surefall glade (and all druids at teleport spots)....and become non-kos to karana residence. When kunark comes, I'll be non-kos in the outpost AND firiona vie. You just can't underestimate the power of faction. Gnome size also lets them get places other people can't go. Fittin through gates, and doors and all sorts of things! Can even swim through the closed gates in kedge keep as a gnome! Is iksar +8 regen and AC worth all that? Nope! Gnomes is great!! So, +25 to dex, +5 to str (helps make up the lack of str a little) .............. Equipment!! Gettin decent armors is pretty cheap actually as a bone knight. You can splurge for a few higher ticket items (like thick banded belt or cloak of shadows)... but overall focus on AC + DEX + HP https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...ar_Bone_Knight and here is a glimpse into the future with kunark... https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...he_Bone_Knight Look at all them ACs!! And even nice INT with the rod of annihilation reducing it by 50...and all that DEX.... so stronks!!! .................. Weapons Generally, the greatest weapons are going to be proccing. Since the strategy is to maximize DEX to take advantage of vampiric embrace, it also translates to boosting all the proc weapons you get. Which means!! 1 - 16 (6 damage DD, +6 damage a tick for a minute) https://wiki.project1999.com/Crookstinger 16 - 18 (30 damage proc) https://wiki.project1999.com/Obsidian_Shard 18 - 28 (20 damage DD, and 2 ticks of 15 damage) https://wiki.project1999.com/Stiletto_of_the_Bloodclaw 28+ (48 damage proc + interrupt) https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_writhing and then situational 46+ (585 DD to undead!!!) https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_undead_legions 30+ (162 DD to summoned) https://wiki.project1999.com/Gold_Plated_Koshigatana ................. Spells! First off is the main thing necromancers miss.... vampiric embrace. You get this at level 8 (!!!) and it procs for 12 + level .... so at level 8, that's a 20 damage lifetap proc! For 30 mana (if you only proc once, but if you have high dex, you will proc far more). That's DOUBLE the damage of the level 4 lifetap proc (necros don't get a new one at level 8). And even at level 12 when they get a lifetap of 39 (scales to 45), the vampiric embrace is doing 24 damage! Even at level 50, your vampiric embrace will be doing 62 damage lifetap, which isn't shabby! At 12 you also get our first lifetap dot spell... leach. These are always far better in terms of mana efficiency. And a big secret is THEY ALL STACK. Not in terms of damage, but in terms of healing. So if you are tanking an ice giant, you can throw your 80 damage lifetap dot + the 20 damage one... and be getting 100 a tick regeneration. This is why the iksars regen isn't really that important for a necromancer, because with a single lifetap dot you are usually over-healing yourself anyway. With bone magics, life comes and goes easily. Then at level 16 you get banshee aura (8 point damage shield!!) and spirit armor (self AC buff). Personally the aura wasn't lasting enough for me to worry about (it lasts 4.2 minutes when you get it, but scales to 9 minutes at level 40...which is much better). But the damage per mana is still higher than anything you have if you are tanking (which you WILL be tanking). Just normally it is better to save mana for lifetaps to keep your downtime low. And then at level 20 you get shadow vortex...another AC boost and a greattt taunting spell. Though when lower level disease cloud is much cheaper mana (if less agro). And that's really the core of offensive magics. I don't dot or nuke generally (unless being lazy and fear kiting for money or something). It's more important for me to tank and keep my downtime low (especially since I don't meditate often, I just let lich form regenerate my mana for me). Defensive wise... empathy spells are important... not just for healing your team, but also for healing your pet. Once you get shadow pact, everything changes in your ability to heal others... and you can shadow pact multiple people and only be draining yourself once. It's also worth noting that 2 necromancers can shadow pact each other and end up both net-healing each other. And since the spell costs like 10 mana, it's effectively infinite healing (making them great duo partners later to help reduce the downtime to 0). ............... Leveling / Pulling Since you usually aren't out-damaging your pet in melee... the best idea for leveling is a duo. The thing is you don't really need a healer or a tank, and leveling up a monk or rogue can make a great partner (a monk is best if going deep and handling a lot, since you can both FD it off.... or even another necromancer). You can split pull by casting screaming terror on one of the targets, mezzing it and pulling the other with social agro. Then when the other one gets to you, just FD and pop back up for a second. It should clear the agro of the other one, since it's still sitting on its spawn point. But also, screaming terror often acts as a memory blur. This can be handy if you are PLing in some way (PLing others, or someone bigger killing things and you mem blur the target before you finish it off). .................... Battle Strategy!! The thing about necromancers and bone knights....is that you can EASILY out-tank your pet until the mid 40's. So fighting generally is protecting your pet and setting up your lifetap dots (then throwing in a lifetap or two while fighting if you need). If you get too many weapon procs too quickly, it can over-agro you.... but that doesn't happen too often, so most of the time you can take a step back and let your pet take a couple hits if you need to to heal back up with a longer casting lifetap (or to let a couple ticks of lifetap drain take effect). And that's really all there is to it. You might consider using clinging darkness (very cheap) to keep things from running if you are fighting in a close situation. But generally you will be killing a high volume of things and just ripping through all enemies.... even 2 or 3 at a time sometimes (such as in Permafrost). Just as long as you use screaming terror to control extra pulls, or even root (against undead frogloks, I prefer screaming terror... since they can root you next to them, and rooting them back isn't going to help manage the damage). The main thing with bone knights is their ability to recover. Both mana and health... and just keep fighting. Tanking for your team and helping to heal them if they get hurt with the empathy lines. ............ Leveling Guide You can really level anywhere... but some key areas are Permafrost when you get to be around 20ish, and stay there till 30ish. Then go to cazic thule and you can solo the maze near the entrance (just single pulling back to your pet). And do that till 35ish? Maybe 36? Then guk is great till 45... and you could go to 50 there, but I went to ice giants outside of permafrost till 50 to get moneys instead. Really bone knights can go anywhere.... and if you don't want to pay much attention, fear kite works just as fine (since you are a gnome and have high int anyhow). Or fight toe to toe as a proper bone knight (I can melee kill ice giants about as fast as I can fear kite kill them with dots, though they hit hard so I end up not being able to keep up with a 3 spawn like that). Charm killing would also be easier, since you are able to take some hits if your pet breaks. Basically, you still got the typical power of necromancers....but because you have built differently, you also have the ability to step in and melee things down (like I was able to melee kill a hill giant, with no pet, just lifetap dots and melees and procs.... my procs alone ended up doing over 850 damage). And you can take FULL advantage of proc weapons (especially undead!). And DPS wise, as shown in the other thread, bone knights are at the very top! At least in classic.... but more testing is needed to see if I can continue to match other fellows in the art of melee battle. ...... The end | ||
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#2
09-25-2020, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
I just don't see this method working well on 44+ mobs or doing sustained dps better than a dot using necro once splurt is part of rotations, and unlike shamans spell swapping mid battle is something necros can do if they want to stack lower level dots. So your endgame spell lineup won't be as streamlined as say a shaman with torpor if you're truly trying to get your best DPS, and it will involve some spell scribing. Years and years ago during endless Kunark I played around on a GM command server and did the whole Rod of Annihilation + Flayed Skin on a human necro, and my goal was to use the shield spells to take zero damage while dishing out melee damage, long story short I too had to use taps just to survive the ravishing drolvargs in DL where I was testing. Maybe the AC difference between current p99 and the box I was using is truly substantial and you can face tank stuff on here that I couldn't there, but I just don't see traditional fear kiting and ever better snares getting set aside in favor of taking hits. Not to mention root rotting prior to Velious. Good luck with your project and I hope you have better results than I did when playing with the idea of melee necro. I will however continue to doubt its viability compared to "regular" play by lazy necromancers. | |||
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#3
09-25-2020, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
But let's crunch dem numbers! A sitting necromancer at 50 gets 39 mana a tick sitting, and 21 standing (as a skeleton). So, over 5 minutes, that's 1950 mana for the sitting, and 1050 for standing. What can a necromancer do with 900 mana? Well, let's be generous and say they aren't nuking, but instead get their FULL dot damage (which won't really be happening much in a group, but let's say it). Ignite blood is 250 mana, for a 1176 damage (over 21 ticks), the best dot you got at 50. Or, 4.7 damage per mana... so 900 x 4.7 = 4230 damage! Melee damage, over 5 minutes, is 1 swing per 1.5 seconds (it's actually more like 1 swing per second with a haste, but let's give melee a disadvantage). And let's take out proc weapons or specialized target hunting (like a necro proccing for 585 is going to be too strong). Over 5 minutes, that's 200 swings. So, let's do a rod of annihilation. 40/40....on a necro that will be hitting up to 80, but let's not go too bananas here, let's just say it's 40 on average. That's 8000 damage..... BUT we haven't figured in procs! Vampiric embrace is 62 damage at level 50... and the proc rate per minute is dex / 170 + 0.5.... so with 170 dex, you get 1.5 procs per minute. ((if you go up to 255 dex, your PPM goes to 2... which over 5 minutes, means you get 10 procs over 5 minutes about)) But at the low 160 dex, you have 7.5 proc of 62 damage ....which is 465 damage, JUST from procs of vampiric embrace (this proc rate is the same for the undead legions staff, which is 585 damage x 7.5....or 4387 damage JUST from that staffs procs over 5 minutes). For reference, the nuke necros have is a 210 mana damage spell that does 500 damage.... so vampiric embrace alone is giving you about a free nuke. So, that takes the total melee damage over 5 minutes to 8465 damage....compared to a FULL damage dot necro to 4230..... less than half.... ....... Now soloing is another consideration, it isn't pure damage... it's also keeping the pet alive. If your pet can easily tank something, then it isn't a problem. But if you are fighting in a dungeon and you can't fear the target around... and your pet can't stomp its way through it.... then, what can you do? Heal your pet a bit, sure.... but it isn't enough, you run into a hard wall where you are racing to kill the target before it kills your pet (then you). With a melee necro, you stay competitive with damage (actually doing more damage for the same amount of mana you'd get by medding)... BUT you are using your superior self-healing to heal off as much damage as you need till you are out of mana. You don't die until you are out (unlike a pet that will die sooner than that). For something hitting hard enough that you can't stay face tanking it non stop, you can do an in and out strategy....meleeing a bit, setting up your lifetap dots... but basically acting more as a buffer for your pet. Letting it tank a bit, then stepping in and taking off some pressure (while healing it), and then backing up again to let it tank more with it's health while you heal. Basically a trade back and forth which can let you face MUCH stronger things than you can elsewise. I actually tested this with another necromancer in sky. We both were taking turns trying to solo one of the island 1 faeries... and my in and out strategy was able to take it down twice as far as they were before they had to FD it off. ....... So.... overall, in every way, meleeing is stronger as a necromancer (if you build it right). If you don't... it just won't work... you will get max hit each hit and be just a giant mana-drain. That's why AC is so critical, it slows the rate of HP loss to something more manageable in terms of mana-burn to compensate. | |||
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Last edited by Ivory; 09-25-2020 at 11:25 PM..
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#4
09-26-2020, 09:42 PM
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It is a Gnome, but I put most points into INT, I'm assuming I can't now compensate with some cheap DEX items (rings, earrings, bracelets...etc...) to try Bone Knight strategy? I would have to re-roll, right? Another question, you said: "if you build it right" So what else I should do, if I re-roll. Should rings, earrings and other stuff (speaking low levels 10-20-30) be all DEX based or what combo should I be getting? Mind you, I don't even know if there are such things as DEX rings... I bought only INT items for my Necro and Magician so far. So if you can be here a little bit more specific (like you were with the weapons) for totally clueless noob player, I would really appreciate it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] As a very bad, slow, clumsy player I wouldn't mind to try out even easier toon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Norath God knows I need it lol (I have a record in # of dying on Green, just can't prove it) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Another point in having Bone Knight. I almost died yesterday, since I didn't notice my target was my pet, not Treant. I wasted most of my mana by the time I realised what I was doing. If I would mele Treant, that wouldn't have happen! I can see the benefits already lmao! | |||
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Last edited by pivo; 09-26-2020 at 09:50 PM..
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#5
10-08-2020, 02:10 PM
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very interesting read!
BUT: what about endgame raiding ? how does this work there? iam now thinking about to reroll with all points into DEX but above is holding me back doing so!
__________________
Mitic - VZTZ - 8 Inches Unbuffed - 2008
Mitic - Blue - Inglorious Basterds/Transatlantic Rampage - 2010 Mitic - Red - Nihilum - 2014 Mitic - Green - Dial a Port (yes, porting is more fun than raid-rotations) - 2020 | ||
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#6
10-08-2020, 02:17 PM
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At any time a bone knight can be the same as a normal necromancer if they want to "just" use their spells. But, often I do melee in raiding, because with my staff I outDPS everyone with undead targets (and once i get the rod of annihilation, I think I'll stay top / near the top in DPS into kunark). The last raid I went to (fire giants) me and a paladin went ahead of everyone and duoed one of the giants to test our might (no fear kiting). We were both trading back and forth on tanking, and then when we both got worn out, we stepped back and the pet took over tanking while we rested a minute and then got back into the fight. Here are some parses from hate... ((for reference, Snagasson is a rogue)) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | |||
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#7
09-26-2020, 10:59 PM
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And how are you getting a 40 delay weapon down to 1 or 1.5 seconds? Even 100% haste would result in an effective delay of 20. These numbers just don't seem to add up. | |||
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#8
09-26-2020, 11:45 PM
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The attack speed were just a random thing, but at level 60 you have a haste cap of 100% (with a haste buff + item you are there). New (Hasted) Delay = Delay/(1+Haste) So really it would be at 2 seconds per swing with the rod. Which is 150 attacks over 5 minutes... which doesn't effect the proc damage (since it's per minute based in general), but brings the melee damage down to 40 x 150 = 6000 + 465.... which is still 6465 damage compared to a dotting necro getting FULL damage of 4230. BUT again, that damage is at 4.7 DPM....assuming you get FULL damage from all of your dots over 5 minutes. It's still so far from where a melee necro gets (and we don't really know the exact amount, since there is some wiggle room for that necro melee to be even higher... or lower, if they miss a ton, but I don't really notice THAT much missing). Quote:
Let alone the more mysterious finding that higher strength will increase your max damage hits... which actually might explain why I was seeing hits for 50 with my 20 damage staff, since casters don't get the main hand bonus damage... so it was just coming from my 101 strength right now? Hmmm, that might make melee even more effective than I thought with more focus on strength. I'm reading it now, and it looks like your MOD bonus is (Offensive skill + STR) / 100 For necromancer, they cap at 140 offense So (140 + 250) / 100 = 3.9 Which means with a 40 damage weapon, you will have a max hit of 156 (if you get up to 250 str). With a more modest 140 str (140 + 140) / 100 = 2.8 or 112 damage..... Hmmm, I wonder if going heavier into strength would be more worth it for a bone knight? Some weapons are just too strong to ignore their procs (the undead legions and then a couple velious ones).... but maybe a more balanced approach to dex and str would be good. So, why don't we hear about more casters meleeing? There is just a strange mentality around it (even though the numbers seem to be quite fine). What caster is focusing on their STR any?? Let alone getting a haste item or even bothering to keep their skills up? Even lower level you don't see casters or clerics meleeing (even though their weapon / offensive skills haven't dropped off yet, making them as good at melee as a knight class.... with necromancers vampiric embrace making them BETTER melees than knights). Anyhow, build wise, I think switching out the earrings and rings and maybe shoulder / back for more strength... and then shaman buff + siphon would be enough to take strength up towards 250ish (while still having high dex). Being able to hit for almost 160 sure would be something though!!!! Heck, let's calculate the level 60 damage hitting at 2/3rds of your hits at about 3/4ths of your max hit. Which is about 80 damage per hit (if you put in the misses as just reduction in damage, so 160 x 0.75 x 0.66 = 80).... for 150 hits... that's 12,000 damage!!! From melee damage alone (again, still about 500 damage from procs added on there too).... with the possibility of going higher if you are fully melee buffed or lower the AC of the target. Compared to a caster necro.... getting that same 900ish mana from medding... and turning it into dots.... even level 50+ dots aren't giving you better than 4.7 damage per mana...... so still sitting at about 4230 damage (maybe they can cast a tiny bit more with their increase of 2 mana per tick from meditating......of 50 ticks over 5 minutes... or 100 extra mana..... so, 470 extra damage than they had at 50?) It's just night and day in terms of the potential damage. Even if you cut the damage of melee by HALF, it STILL blows the medding necro out of the water. ...... I dunno, the more I look at the numbers, the more bananas meleeing seems to be at higher levels with a proper build and some key high end items. But don't think you NEED the rod of annihilation either. Because a 1:1 ratio weapon for a caster isn't THAT crazy. Especially once velious hits you can get velium brawl sticks and go to town. Where does it ULTIMATELY all end up? Well.... the most amazing, top tier bone weapon of all time... is this... https://wiki.project1999.com/Staff_of_the_Silent_Star 15/18... procs a 400 DD with -300 fire resist checks....... Now THAT is the ultimate weapon of DPS in melee for a bone knight. Combining the procs with the raw melees.... so amazins. | ||||
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#9
01-15-2021, 11:52 AM
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Bone Knight Experiment
Hey all, after reading this thread I decided it would be fun to gear up a Bone Knight build and see how it worked. Before I go into my observations and questions, here are my stats (Currently at Level 9):
Race: Gnome HP: 358 (I am wearing (2) 5/55 rings AC: 286 (I have a few higher end pieces like Grave Sandals, Cloak of Shadows, Roykl's Channelleing Crystal) STR: 75 DEX: 170 Weapons: Crookstinger, Smoldering Brand I found levels 1-8 to be a breeze; so much that I didn't even need a pet. However, this was likely due to being geared up. At level 9 my experience changed; when fighting blues, I can tank fine. Even or Yellow is problematic - I find I am mashing the Lifespike button more than I anticipated. Vampiric Embrace seems to proc less than my weapons do. I'm spending a lot of time bandaging and resting. Am I doing something wrong? Or is it at Level 12, once we have our first Leach spell, that things get better? thanks!! | ||
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#10
01-15-2021, 08:27 PM
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I hit 12 and got Leach - and it was a game changer. NOW I see the power this setup can have. Also - get a Smoldering Brand for 1HB of you can afford it. It's worth it.
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Hybrid Mode
