Shaman or enchanter

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is this any better than plain old root?

Well, here on blue, root can break any tic.

I know red root is a bit different, not sure on the specifics.

Not sure where you play.

Having for example, a rooted hiero break root and walk towards the door and be CH'd by a golem, is, bad. Or, it makes it out of the door, and now you have a CHing golem and hiero to kill.

And, with vel out, you can stack snare/root.

EDIT: Also, good luck sticking a >1tic root on fungi king lol.
DoubleEdit: Snare can't be broken with nukes either.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Snare neck is overrated and JBB only has a small window of usefulness. Don't let those affect your decision.

That iksar ac bonus is overrated.

As a very wise poster on these here forums always used to say, if you can pick ogre, you always should pick ogre.

Ogre FSI allows you to get your spells off when you are face tanking hard hitting mobs, while other shamans would likely fail.

Basically ogres are supreme in combat, while trolls and iksar regen bonus give them an edge out of combat in between fights when using canni for mana regen.

This guy can minimalise the usefulness of the JBB and other clickies useable by all shaman races except iksar, but options are always nice and having the opportunity to use them is better than not having them.

Large races also get slam, which can prove to be useful when you need to interrupt a casting mob too.

There's only one reason to pick an iksar over a troll if you value health regen over ogre FSI and that's if you prefer them aesthetically or enjoy their lore, etc.

The fact of the matter is gamewise, iksar simply are inferior to both trolls and ogres if you are min/maxing for performance and for total options available in the game while playing the shaman class.

Oh, iksar also enjoy swinging weapons like gimps, they truly have by far the worst combat animations in the game.

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy can minimalise the usefulness of the JBB and other clickies useable by all shaman races except iksar, but options are always nice and having the opportunity to use them is better than not having them.

I still dust off the JB clickies for noobs asking for stats after I tali/haste them

Also great crapbuffs before you toss a tali/torp on dogdog when you want him to eat some HTs.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a very wise poster on these here forums always used to say, if you can pick ogre, you always should pick ogre.

"Used to" being the optimal words here. Things have changed since Kunark was released.

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ogre FSI allows you to get your spells off when you are face tanking hard hitting mobs, while other shamans would likely fail.

FYI: This is not what FSI does, and you can still get interrupted by mobs from the front. You can also still get bashed by mobs from the side or from the back.

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FYI: This is not what FSI does, and you can still get interrupted by mobs from the front. You can also still get bashed by mobs from the side or from the back.

The difference is you aren't guaranteed to drop the cast when bashed as an ogre.

Any other race, when sucessfully bashed, stops their cast as if they ducked it. They don't even get to the channeling check. Ogres get to at least attempt the channeling check. And against slowed mobs, channeling isn't really a problem, getting bashed and instantly dropping that reslow-v-resist or 6sec torp cast or 9sec epic click is.

If you're tanking with your flank or ass...that's a different problem, no race selection is going to change that.

[Sinadin]

the Ench Lull spell line is big...in my opinion the best asset an Enchanter has (besides the obvious of course)

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Darkatar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is you aren't guaranteed to drop the cast when bashed as an ogre.

Any other race, when sucessfully bashed, stops their cast as if they ducked it. They don't even get to the channeling check. Ogres get to at least attempt the channeling check. And against slowed mobs, channeling isn't really a problem, getting bashed and instantly dropping that reslow-v-resist or 6sec torp cast or 9sec epic click is.

If you're tanking with your flank or ass...that's a different problem, no race selection is going to change that.

He knows what I meant when I described how ogres can get their spells off versus non-ogres.

He has an iksar fetish and just argues for the sake of arguing no matter how many valid and true points people make explaining why ultimately ogres are the master race for shaman with trolls near them at the top.

The fact velious is out doesn't diminish the usefulness of the jaundiced armor clickies, he knows this too.

He mentions how ogres get stunned from the side and back, and I can't think of a time I have ever tried landing a spell on mobs with my backside facing them when on my ogre shaman. Really just a silly response to try to diminish how powerful FSI really is.

Anyway, either class shaman or enchanter is a good choice.

I think enchanters are equal if not more powerful than shamans, and the best part is they won't require the financial investment the shaman will in the end regarding epic and spells.

That being said, if you are min/maxing and pick shaman, go with the ogre you won't regret it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He knows what I meant when I described how ogres can get their spells off versus non-ogres.

Oh I know, I just feel it's shitty to misinform new players so I thought I'd throw my $0.02 in there and explain "what FSI does"

In general, the OP on these kinds subjects tends to actually read and not just agree with the rhetoric blindly unless nobody else is there to make a logical counterpoint.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He knows what I meant when I described how ogres can get their spells off versus non-ogres.

He has an iksar fetish and just argues for the sake of arguing no matter how many valid and true points people make explaining why ultimately ogres are the master race for shaman with trolls near them at the top.

The fact velious is out doesn't diminish the usefulness of the jaundiced armor clickies, he knows this too.

He mentions how ogres get stunned from the side and back, and I can't think of a time I have ever tried landing a spell on mobs with my backside facing them when on my ogre shaman. Really just a silly response to try to diminish how powerful FSI really is.

Anyway, either class shaman or enchanter is a good choice.

I think enchanters are equal if not more powerful than shamans, and the best part is they won't require the financial investment the shaman will in the end regarding epic and spells.

That being said, if you are min/maxing and pick shaman, go with the ogre you won't regret it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This post is so full of wrong that it's hilarious. You've never played a character past level 30, so you've never even click any Jaundiced Bone armor. You can't possibly know how useless it really is. Know this: Iksar have the benefit of clicking the JBB BP at level 1. They get 46 levels of extra armor before a Troll can even click it once. The JBB bracer is not that good, especially in Velious. Kill any named in Velks or SG or DN or WW using one. I dare you. The snare neck has negligible benefits that only work in specific circumstances, similar to FSI.

You're the first person I've ever heard call Ogre the "master race." That's something people normally associate with Iksar, and for a reason. Iksar are known to be the best race for every class/race combo possibility once Kunark comes out. The regen and the extra armor are seriously that much better while leveling and only become more important once you're at max stats unlike other racial benefits of Ogre and Troll. Warriors don't actually need FSI to hold aggro because they can just click a root net or a slow hammer and everything works out, anyway.

You obviously don't understand racial perks, but instead of accepting that and learning something new, you're doubling down on your misconceptions of FSI. The usefulness is extremely niche because after a mobs bash is on cooldown, you have plenty of time to cast the next root. Next you'll be telling me that Ogres are the best SK because they can channel through bash to cast FD? That's just dumb. It's not important at any other point in the game.

Honestly, FSI is just a crutch. It can be outshined easily just by being prepared and knowing how to play your class. Personally, I'd rather have racial perks that provide constant benefit.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is this any better than plain old root? If anything, the six second cast time makes it much worse.

You can stack snare and root now. It's not an either/or situation.

It's nice to be able to re-root a mob before it reaches you, thanks to the run speed mod of snare.

It's nice to be able to snare a rooted fleeing mob so if root breaks after 11% you can start swinging (or send in pet) without worrying about incoming damage.

Also a fun little quest to do if that counts for anything. You get to kill halflings, wear ones face as a mask and pretend to be him for a while. Then you get to duff up a self righteous high elf. Its funs all the way down!