With no GM authority, these raid talks are worse than useless

[HeallunRumblebelly]

First off I'd like to thank Rogean for thinking of the possibility that there may be a problem with the current raid scene on Project 1999. The raid situation for those who were not involved prior to this announcement was a situation of repeated FTEs (where the FTE shouts added to discern FTE were nearly pointless), fraps and GM arbitration on every kill where the top two guilds decided to attend. The CSR staff decided that this was too much work on an unpaid team and wanted the community to come up with something that would be amenable to all (or most) raiding parties.

And this is where we are now.

Many ideas have been proposed in the multitude of threads recently on server chat ranging from removal of variance, adding a grace window for other guilds to compete, points systems, timed repops and rotations. Some of these ideas would seem to involve even more CSR involvement than the current raid rules which is antithetical to the reasons that new raid rules are being brainstormed upon in the first place. Each person and guild has their own inputs and goals. The biggest issue we have is that server chat is not a proper framework for discussion of this type. I'm all for keeping these things transparent, but when no one has any bargaining power, or even worse, any enforcement capability, the words are meaningless.

Regardless of what is chosen for new raid rules, a proper summit needs to be held once again with people who would be interested in seeing raid rules changed. In P99's current structure this would mean guild representatives as it's the only organization structure we have to organize P99's vast playerbase. I would just like to re-iterate that if after the end of such talks if the rules are not binding with definite consequence, then the whole of the talks would be pointless and we'd rather not have a repeat of what we've had in the past. Rogean (maybe Nilbog? fuzzy on this) had said in the past that there would never be a GM enforced rotation, but here we are discussing what is essentially what type of rotation (or mercy rules) the server would like to put in place. Without these rules, we simply have what we had before, which the CSR staff has decided to be unacceptable.

I guess my question is, how long are 100 randoms going to jerk it on the forums before something actually gets done about these raid rule changes? The guild representatives aren't sitting at the table discussing right now--they're flinging feces across the room. Without structure and binding agreements, the talks mean nothing.

[Frieza_Prexus]

A guild forum should be opened and only guild leaders + chosen representatives should have posting rights. This along with vent roundtables should facilitate useful discussion.

I think the best way to organize the forum would be a separate thread for each "idea" regarding raid scene changes, and that a master thread would be stickied where each guild involved posted ONCE as to whether they support, oppose, or "could live with" each individual idea thread so that we can quickly assess the overall environment and see where common ground exists.

Zagum is out of town ATM, but TMO should be in official contact in a few days.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A guild forum should be opened and only guild leaders + chosen representatives should have posting rights. This along with vent roundtables should facilitate useful discussion.

I think the best way to organize the forum would be a separate thread for each "idea" regarding raid scene changes, and that a master thread would be stickied where each guild involved posted ONCE as to whether they support, oppose, or "could live with" each individual idea thread so that we can quickly assess the overall environment and see where common ground exists.

Zagum is out of town ATM, but TMO should be in official contact in a few days.

Definitely a good way to organize the discussion, but what of final arbitration? Who decides what rules go in? Is it a vote or does the CSR staff simply pick the best rules and post them? We need more information from the CSR staff before a final decision is made. I think Rogean, according to his front page post, wanted this to be a community led and community driven thing, but in the past we've seen what the community has chosen (as it has no enforcement arm beyond its own guild).

[sanforce]

I'm pretty sure Rogean wants the community to work it out and wants less work for his staff. A dedicated and exclusive forum would help tremendously, but in the end I think any new rule will have to come from the community and be enforced by the community.

[Autotune]

It's probably because most of the raid people have been around the block a few times. GMs talk about change, the raiders go wild with ideas and suggestions and nothing is implemented or changed with staff backing.

reason.

Everyone wanted variance to be reduced and the staff only increased it.

[JayN]

I hope this works this time; instead of a bunch of assholes breaking off into other smaller guilds in attempts to get more spawns (like the last time there was an agreement).

Good luck this sounds great in theory but there are just to many A-type narcissistic greedy ass trolls on p99.

I am personally all for HONORED agreements

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

An admittedly non-classic solution, would be for the devs to put an Omar-bot into the game, that would be triggered if a gm looks in and sees some kinda lame-ass bullshit happenin

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[JayN]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An admittedly non-classic solution, would be for the devs to put an Omar-bot into the game, that would be triggered if a gm looks in and sees some kinda lame-ass bullshit happenin

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Sleeper wakenings monthly please

[Exmo]

Um. Roegan wasn't subtle in saying there will be GM enforcement.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...131739&page=16

TMO You will be expected to abide by the agreement, so I suggest you participate and work with the other guilds respectfully.

[Rogean]

You started this thread with wrong information.

I didn't read much but TLDR seems to be that player arrangements are useless because they won't be enforced by staff.

And that's where you're wrong, and exactly why I told TMO they need to come to an arrangement, because they aren't coming off raid suspension until they do.

Whatever the majority of raiding guilds agree on WILL be enforced by the staff.