SK roles

[Danth]

The problem with min-max isn't that some folks might do so from a hobbyist standpoint. The problem is that, being realistic, most folks do it because other games have trained them that they have to whereas in EQ it's complete fluff. EQ's a very loosely-tuned game. Virtually all "group" content can be solo'd or duo'd. The small advantage gained through character creation min-max in this game serves virtually no purpose in actual practice. I do not tell a hobbyist min-maxer not to do what he enjoys; I tell a regular everyday player not to bother with it because there's no need to do so in this game. For most folks, selecting their character race based on appearance is by far the most important long-term consideration.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with min-max isn't that some folks might do so from a hobbyist standpoint. The problem is that, being realistic, most folks do it because other games have trained them that they have to whereas in EQ it's complete fluff. EQ's a very loosely-tuned game. Virtually all "group" content can be solo'd or duo'd. The small advantage gained through character creation min-max in this game serves virtually no purpose in actual practice. I do not tell a hobbyist min-maxer not to do what he enjoys; I tell a regular everyday player not to bother with it because there's no need to do so in this game. For most folks, selecting their character race based on appearance is by far the most important long-term consideration.

Danth

I agree, there is not as much of a need to Min/Max in Everquest as in other games. That is why I never say you must play X race/class combination to be successful.

However, if someone is asking a Min/Max question, it should be answered honestly. There are people who want to Min/Max in Everquest, and I find it odd that some people are hostile towards Min/Maxing. I am not saying you are (you are not), but other people seem to jump to strange conclusions.

Saying "Play what looks good" isn't really answering OP's question. I would imagine if OP mostly cared about fashion, they wouldn't be asking this question in the first place.

Some racial bonuses/items considerably increase one's ability to kill mobs, especially if you prefer to solo. For people who do not have as much time to play per session, that IS an important consideration.

For people who want the best character they can make, there is no reason not to know which character has the best end-game capability, even if it is marginal. This is especially true for people who either do not care what they look like, or happen to like what the Min/Max option looks like.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would imagine if OP mostly cared about fashion, they wouldn't be asking this question in the first place.

Maybe he would: Again, a lot of folks come here from other environments that train them into thinking they have to eek out every advantage possible. At any rate, I try to do both: I'll answer what I think of as the min-max choice (troll in this case, for this class) while always reminding folks that they shouldn't feel compelled to do so--which is what I did in my earlier post in this thread. We're on the same page here, I think.

Solo is an interesting considering because if you mean leveling then racial regeneration is not a strong enough advantage to compensate for the 20% experience penalty that both regen races are saddled with. Regen's nice being able to make up health while feigned or hidden AFK; that's mainly why I like it, although as noted my own shadow knight is human. It's also nice if you're solo-farming at max level someplace with high green /con opponents that do modest but not extreme damage.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe he would: Again, a lot of folks come here from other environments that train them into thinking they have to eek out every advantage possible. At any rate, I try to do both: I'll answer what I think of as the min-max choice (troll in this case, for this class) while always reminding folks that they shouldn't feel compelled to do so--which is what I did in my earlier post in this thread. We're on the same page here, I think.

Solo is an interesting considering because if you mean leveling then racial regeneration is not a strong enough advantage to compensate for the 20% experience penalty that both regen races are saddled with. Regen's nice being able to make up health while feigned or hidden AFK; that's mainly why I like it, although as noted my own shadow knight is human. It's also nice if you're solo-farming at max level someplace with high green /con opponents that do modest but not extreme damage.

Danth

Yes, we are certainly on the same page.

The benefits of Troll/Iksar Regeneration while soloing do vary based on if you have a Fungi Tunic or not. If you do not have a Fungi Tunic, levels 1-50 you regenerate twice as fast as other races. This theoretically means you should be able to solo up to 2x as fast. That should overcome the 20% penalty. This does assume you mostly solo. If you group often, the 20% penalty will cause you to level slower, and the regeneration won't really help.

If you do have a Fungi, then levels 1-50 aren't really going to be affected too much by racial regeneration. Levels 1-19 you will only be getting +2 regeneration sitting, and +3 at levels 20-49. The +15 from Fungi is way better than that, and you aren't losing much by not having racial regeneration.

Troll/Ikar Regeneration becomes much better 51+. At level 60 you will be getting +8 standing, which means you have 1.5x Fungis at level 60. That should allow you to solo up to 1.5x faster.

EDIT: With Epic and Ring 10, it is not quite as good, since both of those add extra regeneration. You get +25 from Fungi and Ring 10. Assuming you proc Epic 3 times in a 3 minute fight, that is an extra 30 Regeneration. +8 will be a 15% increase. So it's about a 15% increase in solo speed with all of the goodies. Troll/Iksar Regeneration would mostly nullify https://wiki.project1999.com/Soul_Defiler 's -11HP per tick. You would still be getting +22 from Fungi and Ring 10, and whatever you get from Epic.

[Stonewallx39]

Thank you to everyone who’s responded. One of the reasons I love the forums is it’s a fairly free place where ideas can battle in the arena. Definitely didn’t see much in the way of “shit posts” but hey maybe I don’t have an eye for it.

To add a little clarity, I am concerned with min/max to the capacity of not wanting to be pigeon holed into one role because of racial selection. I like variety and the SK can definitely fulfill a number of duties when pressed into service. I’m not part of a true end game guild but do raid regularly (combined forces, mediums sized targets, etc.). Where we have more opportunities for less than optimized role filling.

I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing an important game mechanic that would be painfully obvious after a 50+ lvl grind. Just for point of preference I don’t think I’ll play a non-large race melee again, I’m just too in love with slam (I know it’s possible to switch to a shield but convenience people!).

Thanks again!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Stonewallx39 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you to everyone who’s responded. One of the reasons I love the forums is it’s a fairly free place where ideas can battle in the arena. Definitely didn’t see much in the way of “shit posts” but hey maybe I don’t have an eye for it.

To add a little clarity, I am concerned with min/max to the capacity of not wanting to be pigeon holed into one role because of racial selection. I like variety and the SK can definitely fulfill a number of duties when pressed into service. I’m not part of a true end game guild but do raid regularly (combined forces, mediums sized targets, etc.). Where we have more opportunities for less than optimized role filling.

I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing an important game mechanic that would be painfully obvious after a 50+ lvl grind. Just for point of preference I don’t think I’ll play a non-large race melee again, I’m just too in love with slam (I know it’s possible to switch to a shield but convenience people!).

Thanks again!

No problem! You certainly will not be pigeon holed based on race. Honestly this doesn't happen with any class/race combination in P99. As long as you are good at your class, people don't really care.

Troll Regeneration will help quite a bit if you prefer to solo, unless you have a https://wiki.project1999.com/Fungus_Covered_Scale_Tunic ready to go for this new character. Shadowknights only get Regeneration, Bind Wound, and https://wiki.project1999.com/Dark_Runed_Breastplate (or Kael/Skyshrine equivalent) for out of combat recovery. You should get https://wiki.project1999.com/Embalmers_Skinning_Knife to Bind Wound yourself, and speed up recovery times.

Ogre Frontal Stun Immunity is good for any situation where you are getting hit, and will give you more mileage in groups/raids. This is because racial regeneration isn't that big of a deal in groups/raids, since you will have a dedicated healer most of the time.

[Crede]

I feel like min maxing on an sk makes even more sense, because they need help as much as possible due to being so inferior in the classic era. Trolls also look great in plate and have the best custom helm, easy decision imo.

[Jimjam]

Min maxing on an sk doesn’t make sense as a min max ethos informs roll a better class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like min maxing on an sk makes even more sense, because they need help as much as possible due to being so inferior in the classic era. Trolls also look great in plate and have the best custom helm, easy decision imo.

Agreed. Trolls look great.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Min maxing on an sk doesn’t make sense as a min max ethos informs roll a better class.

Incorrect. You can still Min/Max a Shadowknight. Min/Max does not only imply rolling the optimal classes.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Min maxing on an sk doesn’t make sense as a min max ethos informs roll a better class.

Is min maxing wars, clerics, and rogues really a thing though?

Best war is the one who has their disc available, and cleric/rogue racial advantages are microscopic.