Miscellaneous: Potential Bug with No Manastones Dropping

[Sunderfury]

Telin was pretty clear that he wanted more evidence to implement change, just saying 'it makes sense that it isn't ultra rare' isn't evidence. Knowing what the drop rate is set to right now won't do you any good.

I dug through some newsgroup queries and found 1 piece of 2nd hand evidence for a 1:8 ratio, which is basically a 12.5% drop rate (still very rare by all accounts). It does seem like there was a period based on accounts that it was made more rare, but not sure if they would consider this evidence enough for an increased drop rate.

There's probably more evidence out there, maybe a farm guide or zone guide from early on. Get to searching. Perhaps you want to make a case for a less rare chance of Evil Eye spawn to speed up the drop rate.

It's tough to find a lot of info in era, but give it a shot.

[Daldaen]

For things in the first 6 months of everquest finding anything at all is rare because fan sites were just then cropping up. Finding something as specific as drop rates which take hundreds if not thousands of entries to confirm you’ve done a good job at shaking potential RNG skewing effects, is just not feasible for this type of legacy item. Trust me, I’ve done a lot of EverQuest research in my day. Finding something this specific this early from EQs lifespan just isn’t feasible.

As evidence of this, all the quotes you pulled from the google group are from dates after the item removal was confirmed via patch note. So all of those people who are claiming the item is now uber rare are mistaken and it actually got removed. Brad has a post confirming the removal of the item and later planar Nerf.

I think the fact that literally every other analogous rare creature from vanilla has a similar drop rate distribution of their common and rare drops is extremely telling. If there were some outliers that would be one thing. We are talking about the hundreds of named across 30+ zones that follow this pattern. Common 80-60%, Rare 20-40%. I get that the item is unique and was removed but when they originally launched with all of these unique items like JBoots, Quillmane Cloak, Guise, FBSS/Mithril 2hs (only group haste items prior to kedge revamp) etc. you find that even those items also follow the above drop distribution.

I would think in the absence of specific evidence this should be set to match the norm for all the other items which is what I’m suggesting. Rather than setting the item to the extremely rare chance it is currently.

[Sunderfury]

So, I'm not even saying you're wrong. Just that a dev had asked for more evidence to increase the drop rate. I do not believe there is no additional evidence out there personally, especially considering how valuable this item was to classes. Bound to be some old guides / guild pages out there somewhere.

I searched maybe 30 to 40 mins in one resource and found some decent evidence. Not even sure if different key words could yield better results (noticed people referred to this as "mana stone" early on).

[Erati]

I camped these on live in a normal group and by the end of the night we each basically got a Stone ( was 4 of us )

I know sample size etc but this was a normal LGuk 'rare' item which can go on streaks as we have all seen back to back SMRs, Yaks, FBSS etc. I actually think the drop rate wasnt even that rare considering I dont remember returning to camp often, if we returned at all. We even had an 'extra' Manastone drop that I looted for my brother to give him bc he was too low lvl for Lguk.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Sunderfury [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do not believe there is no additional evidence out there personally, especially considering how valuable this item was to classes. Bound to be some old guides / guild pages out there somewhere.

So I would like to comment about this bit.

When I had 'learned' about Manastone, it was being kept secret by players. Eventually the secret got out as most do but I remember players trading Manastone information.

Finding out where drops came from was not easy, you needed high level friends that liked you so they would tell you what you had to do. Manastone was hidden for a long time as people camped them without spilling the beans. I am lucky that I was behind the initial leveling curve that I had friends with people who were Bristlebane's first lvl 50ies so as they leveled I got the foresight into the dungeons they previously leveled in.

Basically my rambling point is, I dont believe you will find a ton of evidence about Manastone statistic or guides. It was kept extremely close to the vest and only a few sets of players who leveled up ahead of the curve really took advantage of the camp before they were removed. There was not a mad dash to get to Lguk like we have now, many items were still undiscovered and being found out by the time Manastone was halfway tru it's shelf life. There was also no loot message in the game when Manastone was dropping so people will not have any data in terms of logs about how many were looted over time.

[WaffleztheAndal]

No one wants a server flooded with manastones. Keep it rare.

The fact Teal means we’re going to have literally double the manastones after the remerge is bad enough.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by WaffleztheAndal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one wants a server flooded with manastones. Keep it rare.

The fact Teal means we’re going to have literally double the manastones after the remerge is bad enough.

It's still a rare drop, I am not sure I follow your logic.

You can literally say the same thing about Yak,SMR,FBSS as they all should have same drop rate as Manastone but no one is crying about the server being 'flooded' with those Lguk items.

Its no different minus the fact it gets removed later but that shouldnt be a factor in the drop rate in a classic relaunch.

[WaffleztheAndal]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's still a rare drop, I am not sure I follow your logic.

You can literally say the same thing about Yak,SMR,FBSS as they all should have same drop rate as Manastone but no one is crying about the server being 'flooded' with those Lguk items.

Its no different minus the fact it gets removed later but that shouldnt be a factor in the drop rate in a classic relaunch.

The manastone was removed for a reason, it’s busted op. Imagine a server flooded with them having been on permanent camping across green and teal with a 20% drop rate. Not to be rude but that’s way, way too much of a broken item.

[Daldaen]

Outside of druid/wizard almost no one uses them on Blue currently and it’s certainly not a make of break item. Just a flavor item people want to play around with.

Soulfire/Reaper being clickable by anyone is far more of a balance concern on a server compared to Manastone. Some Druids / wizards being able to port to classic and regain full mana in reduced time before gating to Kunark or Velious is far less valuable than being able to instantly CH yourself or anyone near you in any zone any time. Just as one example.

Had Manastone not been nerfed to be limited to classic zones I’d agree with you, but the nerf to limit the zones it works in balances the item out.

[Hagglebaron]

I feel like having almost every other cleric, Druid, Necro etc walking around with these things will really take some of the air out of the classic sails. These classes basically won’t have downtime and will have less reliance on working with others to tackle content. Let’s avoid that kind of inflation on the fresh classic server we’ve waited ten years for please.