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  #31  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:54 PM
Gwaihir Gwaihir is offline
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  #32  
Old 01-23-2021, 03:02 PM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Originally Posted by imperiouskitten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I called it in 2015 that he was an emptyman.
Well, I disagree with that sentiment, I started following him in highschool and he's always been a fighter who went his own way all the way until that brutal primary and then he became a real team player.
  #33  
Old 01-23-2021, 05:40 PM
regandna regandna is offline
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Originally Posted by Gwaihir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Lmfaoooooo! That is a great edit.
  #34  
Old 01-23-2021, 06:12 PM
imperiouskitten imperiouskitten is offline
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Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Dude has been jousting Republican evil since before we were born, and there are endless soundbites of him championing 2010-2020 economic progressivism back in the 1990's.

I mean, in 2015 you were also gung ho for Trump
so why did he amass a movement and then quietly shuffle it into the 2020 Democratic party? I don't know the circumstances of every day of his life, but to me it looks like this:

He took up oppositional politics in a small and quirky state and his career went fine. So fine that in time he almost became the president. But when the time came to hit the nuclear option, he chose his career and life (the last 10 years of it) over his policy goals. And supplicated very firmly for Joe Biden, well beyond what was called for or necessary to elect Trump, using the exhausted "Trump bad" as justification for throwing away all strategy and policy ambition beyond neoliberal party hijinks. Now he's dead silent, having missed a thousand opportunities to have used his leverage just like "the squad".

Warren showed herself a phony too when she stayed in to sabotage the winning candidate who shared many of her policy goals. Who cares for how long she had been native war chanting those policy goals? As soon as it actually mattered, she flaked to play for the team.

We call these types sheepdogs, controlled opposition, etc., although these imply intent. Some people are merely weak people who flip for convenience. They thereby wreck their legacy, that legacy you refer to with blinders on to the present. These are in fact less virtuous than confused and angry young boys who get taken for a political ride and improve themselves dramatically in just 4 years with much humility, admitting fault. One is slippery, the other is character. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I give him credit for shifting the narrative, but I subtract many points for going quietly into the margins. There's just no excuse. If he did it all because it was his life to advance progressive policy, he would have been willing to go nuclear. I guess he decided he'd done enough...and you agree.

I know there's a drought of heroes in the American public space, but don't let your standards too low. We need better than Bernie.
Last edited by imperiouskitten; 01-23-2021 at 06:23 PM..
  #35  
Old 01-23-2021, 06:35 PM
Lune Lune is offline
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Originally Posted by imperiouskitten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
so why did he amass a movement and then quietly shuffle it into the 2020 Democratic party? I don't know the circumstances of every day of his life, but to me it looks like this:

He took up oppositional politics in a small and quirky state and his career went fine. So fine that in time he almost became the president. But when the time came to hit the nuclear option, he chose his career and life (the last 10 years of it) over his policy goals. And supplicated very firmly for Joe Biden, well beyond what was called for or necessary to elect Trump, using the exhausted "Trump bad" as justification for throwing away all strategy and policy ambition beyond neoliberal party hijinks. Now he's dead silent, having missed a thousand opportunities to have used his leverage just like "the squad".

Warren showed herself a phony too when she stayed in to sabotage the winning candidate who shared many of her policy goals. Who cares for how long she had been native war chanting those policy goals? As soon as it actually mattered, she flaked to play for the team.

We call these types sheepdogs, controlled opposition, etc., although these imply intent. Some people are merely weak people who flip for convenience. They thereby wreck their legacy, that legacy you refer to with blinders on to the present. These are in fact less virtuous than confused and angry young boys who get taken for a political ride and improve themselves dramatically in just 4 years with much humility, admitting fault. One is slippery, the other is character. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I give him credit for shifting the narrative, but I subtract many points for going quietly into the margins. There's just no excuse. If he did it all because it was his life to advance progressive policy, he would have been willing to go nuclear. I guess he decided he'd done enough...and you agree.

I know there's a drought of heroes in the American public space, but don't let your standards too low. We need better than Bernie.
What would you have had him do? Blacks robbed him of the nomination, again, so he's supposed to maintain conflict with the Democrat nominee and risk throwing the election to Trump? I think you're outlining a flaw in the two party system, not a flaw in Bernie Sanders.

He doesn't have the same signal strength as someone like Trump, or to a far lesser extent, AOC. He can't just hop on twitter and drum up news spotlight with his twitter trolling. In fact, that would probably be counterproductive to his appeal as an honest and decent person. It's not for a lack of trying, the dude goes after as much spotlight as he can get. He's on Maher like once a month and his rabid base memed hard during his contests.

He didn't go quietly into the margins, he was forced into the margins by a country that does not deserve him. I should be clear. I'm not entirely sure Bernie would have made an exceptional president. As great a person as he is, I think he lacks a certain shrewdness. He would have been stonewalled by both parties if he tried to accomplish even a single one of his policy aims. He works much better in the role of political symbol, a person who can rally support behind a discrete policy goals and build a grassroots base. Ironically, this was also Trump's most effective role, and Trump was far more effective at it to the extent that he created a cult.

But then, conservatives are much easier to herd than your average non-college campus white democrat. He still would have been a far better president than Hillary or Trump. Accomplishing little to nothing is better than actively destroying the country. Who knows what would have happened.
  #36  
Old 01-23-2021, 06:36 PM
magnetaress magnetaress is offline
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I'll vote for Warren 2.0 next primary.

What would have happened if Warren 1.0 won the primary? Successful coup? Military apparatus abandon the senate and VP?
  #37  
Old 01-23-2021, 06:43 PM
imperiouskitten imperiouskitten is offline
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Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
What would you have had him do? Blacks robbed him of the nomination, again, so he's supposed to maintain conflict with the Democrat nominee and risk throwing the election to Trump? I think you're outlining a flaw in the two party system, not a flaw in Bernie Sanders.

He doesn't have the same signal strength as someone like Trump, or to a far lesser extent, AOC. He can't just hop on twitter and drum up news spotlight with his twitter trolling. In fact, that would probably be counterproductive to his appeal as an honest and decent person. It's not for a lack of trying, the dude goes after as much spotlight as he can get. He's on Maher like once a month and his rabid base memed hard during his contests.

He didn't go quietly into the margins, he was forced into the margins by a country that does not deserve him. I should be clear. I'm not entirely sure Bernie would have made an exceptional president. As great a person as he is, I think he lacks a certain shrewdness. He would have been stonewalled by both parties if he tried to accomplish even a single one of his policy aims. He works much better in the role of political symbol, a person who can rally support behind a discrete policy goals and build a grassroots base. Ironically, this was also Trump's most effective role, and Trump was far more effective at it to the extent that he created a cult.

But then, conservatives are much easier to herd than your average non-college campus white democrat. He still would have been a far better president than Hillary or Trump. Accomplishing little to nothing is better than actively destroying the country. Who knows what would have happened.
My perspective comes from watching him never withhold his vote to force leverage, just like the squad. I don't claim to be a political wizard, so I won't pretend I can just dismiss your perspective. The complexity of the process makes it essentially opaque to me still. I'm willing to entertain that from his POV, he is doing all he can and trying very hard.

All I know is that I can't see him making plays publicly. Or doing anything but talking, and trying to accumulate higher offices. There have been a number of situations -- Pelosi's speakership reconfirmation, CARES act, etc. -- where I wished the squad and Bernie had made a play while they sat totally silent. I believe they are not playing their offices to their full effect.

I would obviously have preferred he won in 2016 as well as 2020 -- even with the less-charitable view of him. Sounds like you might be implying I stand by Trump in any way, which I promise I don't. murdered 400k+, literal psychopath grand disaster with zero accomplishments. A tax cut and appointing judges by virtue of being the guy in office, and the creation of the greatest American disaster since the Civil War. Both in terms of the pandemic death and the psychological trauma which has damaged and radicalized the majority of our countrymen in one way or another and wildly escalated the growth of what I think to be our gravest vulnerability: anti-intellectual stupidity/insanity/paranoia/sadism/collective mental illness. Absolutely horrific. Don't call me out for voting for that guy again plz, I changed genders to get far away from that mistake [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'm not bad cringe anymore I'm like cute cringe, posting from a rly kawaii black military lookin onesie with long sleeves and like a 2" inseam.
Last edited by imperiouskitten; 01-23-2021 at 07:00 PM..
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