Pulling

[EQBallzz]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously sad to see people claim monk pulling should revolve around elder beads. Git gud already! Beads are a luxury and a crutch. I never once saw them on live, so sad to see monks think they need them just as bad as torpor.

They definitely help and speed up the pulling in some raid situations but Christ already, people act like you need them to exp.

This is sort of my issue with the sneak change. Many people saying sneak pulling was too "easy" but this change really only made pulling harder for those who can't afford beads and don't have uber gear that can help them withstand the extra damage from all the failed FD mem blurs. Don't beads trivialize pulling more than sneak did? At least with sneak you had to pull the mobs into position, get off a successful sneak and have some timing. Beads can be used from the relative safety of a FD position. Maybe that assessment is incorrect because I have never used them but I have seen them used. I'm also assuming bead prices are shooting up to 200k now after this change so they likely even more out of reach for many players (including myself).

All that being said I was able to split the spore king last night in Seb at level 55 using a combination of pathing and geometry to get him away from adds and a rogue to peel him off to group. It was my first time ever in that camp so I don't have an idea what it was like prior to the nerf but I can imagine it was a lot easier before considering how many adds there are (including lots of pathers). So monk splitting (without beads) is still viable but much trickier and more time consuming.

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by EQBallzz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So monk splitting (without beads) is still viable but much trickier and more time consuming.

It completely is. I think a major issue is people's lack of patience. The server is still used to the insta split that came with FD/sneak as it used to function. Everyone is "losing" exp (in there eyes)because they aren't able to pull as fast. Or they don't understand the ins and outs of the new mechanics and therefore get frustrated at what they think is a "bad puller".

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by EQBallzz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is sort of my issue with the sneak change. Many people saying sneak pulling was too "easy" but this change really only made pulling harder for those who can't afford beads and don't have uber gear that can help them withstand the extra damage from all the failed FD mem blurs. Don't beads trivialize pulling more than sneak did? At least with sneak you had to pull the mobs into position, get off a successful sneak and have some timing. Beads can be used from the relative safety of a FD position. Maybe that assessment is incorrect because I have never used them but I have seen them used. I'm also assuming bead prices are shooting up to 200k now after this change so they likely even more out of reach for many players (including myself).

All that being said I was able to split the spore king last night in Seb at level 55 using a combination of pathing and geometry to get him away from adds and a rogue to peel him off to group. It was my first time ever in that camp so I don't have an idea what it was like prior to the nerf but I can imagine it was a lot easier before considering how many adds there are (including lots of pathers). So monk splitting (without beads) is still viable but much trickier and more time consuming.

^^^I agree with this. Nerf Holgresh Beads!

They are just another lame clicky item that have become a crutch for the lack of skill players obviously are afflicted by on p99.

How many exploits do we need to succeed on a 17 year old elfsim?

These beads are circumventing the very nerf to monk sneak pulling! The nerf is incomplete, admin needs to get on this asap imo.

[EQBallzz]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It completely is. I think a major issue is people's lack of patience. The server is still used to the insta split that came with FD/sneak as it used to function. Everyone is "losing" exp (in there eyes)because they aren't able to pull as fast. Or they don't understand the ins and outs of the new mechanics and therefore get frustrated at what they think is a "bad puller".

Agreed. I think it will take some time for people to adjust to a new mindset that monks aren't going to be able to always just pull/split as fast as before and also without any assistance. I think now it makes sense to utilize other classes to facilitate better/faster pulling. Split them solo where you can but you shouldn't be opposed to using lulls or a rogue to peel (or other techniques/classes) where appropriate.

I think this also emphasizes the break portion of a camp more and keeping it broken. It will be more time consuming to break some camps but once you do there is an incentive to keep it broken. Last night the King camp was really difficult until we got it broken then we were able to clear out all the shrooms eventually making the camp much, much easier. At one point we had to clear the jail to get someone to the group and this short delay meant we fell behind on shrooms..causing us to have to re-break camp again.

[awfal]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^^I agree with this. Nerf Holgresh Beads!

They are just another lame clicky item that have become a crutch for the lack of skill players obviously are afflicted by on p99.

How many exploits do we need to succeed on a 17 year old elfsim?

These beads are circumventing the very nerf to monk sneak pulling! The nerf is incomplete, admin needs to get on this asap imo.

P99 Beads aren't currently classic.

On live they actually single pulled whatever mob killed your eyeball without any social aggro. You could literally send an eye into a pack of 10 mobs and solo pull 1 out.

[Ravager]

I used to group with a warrior that would face pull 8 mobs at a time and train them to camp and the enchanter would cc it all. Once the camp was split, it was easy-peasy. What do you need a monk for anyway?

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used to group with a warrior that would face pull 8 mobs at a time and train them to camp and the enchanter would cc it all. Once the camp was split, it was easy-peasy. What do you need a monk for anyway?

My favorite thing is when you are in a group with an enchanter and the monk is intent on pulling mobs to the group single file when in actuality the group is quite capable of managing 5-8 mobs at one time. The entire group sits and waits while the monk performs his awesome pulling and splitting of mobs when it's totally not necessary. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Brooks2728]

Shout out to EQBallzz (in game name: Thees (55 Monk)) who pulled King camp in Seb exceptionally well last night post sneak nerf / with no beads / while also being his first time at the camp!

-Ages

[EQBallzz]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I must be special. When I flop, and let them path back, they reset and I can stand up without agro... The only times this doesn't work is when one has reset, but the other has not, and I stand when they are in assist range of each other. In those instances I get agro.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "agro forever" but this is not the case for me.

Though I will attest to the fact that FD, currently, seems to have 0 chance at a memblur. It memblured a lot more often on live. Like every two flops and one of the mobs would memblur off is more what I recall. Since the patch changes I have had 2 mobs memblur on feign for me. Out of hundreds it seems.

FD is still mem blurring. I saw it work last night at Spore King camp but it seems to only rarely happen when you have 1 mob by itself or mobs split enough that a failure doesn't re-aggro the entire group. If you have a group of even 2-3 mobs it will almost certainly fail because you likely won't blur more than 1 so all will re-aggro if one fails.

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used to group with a warrior that would face pull 8 mobs at a time and train them to camp and the enchanter would cc it all. Once the camp was split, it was easy-peasy. What do you need a monk for anyway?

This is why I usually ask the chanter how many mobs they are comfortable CC'ing before I pull and will try to pull close to that amount of mobs if possible. Usually 2-3 mobs at a time works and you can start pulling again when on last mob.

Originally Posted by Brooks2728 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shout out to EQBallzz (in game name: Thees (55 Monk)) who pulled King camp in Seb exceptionally well last night post sneak nerf / with no beads / while also being his first time at the camp!

-Ages

Thanks man. That was fun. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[EQBallzz]

As a follow up to this thread I have some additional info to add. Based on in-game conversations it seems many are still confused as to what the sneak change actually did or didn't do. Some saying that sneak pulling still works some % of the time. I'm not sure where people are getting that info but I don't believe that is accurate.

I think people are confusing sneak pulling (sneak pulling mobs before aggro) with what actually did change (sneak no longer works to mem blur mobs you already aggro'd). If you haven't aggro'd mobs yet and pull a group from sneaking position..various things can happen..some of which will be similar to the way sneak pulling worked before depending on spacing, which direction mobs are facing, geometry/LOS, mob/player level etc..On the other hand if you pull mobs and FD..then sneaking with the expectation that it will clear your aggro when you stand..that no longer works. At all. Also, FD itself has a chance to mem blur (though I think it's too low on P99 compared to live) so some might be seeing that and thinking it's the sneak still working. I don't believe that is the case.

Did Juggs yesterday and was able to solo split all the Juggs using a combination of sneak pulling (rarely on initial pull) and spawn point resetting (after pull). Some of the interesting things I noticed however is that FD mem blur is definitely still working but it's very unreliable. Mobs returning to spawn point usually mem blurs but this is also somewhat spotty.

When splitting the 6 Juggs + Tolapumj in Trak's lair I witnessed numerous times where I would pull and mobs that reset would re-aggro and other times after FD a mob would not re-aggro that wasn't reset yet (FD mem blur). I even had a single Jugg split from group and the rest all reset but when I stood up and the Jugg near me didn't re-aggro but all the mobs at spawn point did re-aggro. I think this is broken and shouldn't be happening. Mobs that returned to spawn point (and are far enough away from you) should *not* re-aggro and mobs should be mem-blurring from FD at a higher rate such that when you have 2-3+ mobs aggro'd you actually have a chance to mem-blur them.

So to recap:

Sneak pulling before aggro: still sorta works depending on numerous factors (spacing, which direction mobs are facing, geometry/LOS, mob/player level etc).
Sneak pulling after aggro: no longer works to clear aggro from a FD position (no mem blur).
FD mem blur: works but is far too low of a chance making it impossible to rely on unless you have a single mob that is outside of social aggro range of others but that makes it pointless for splitting because it's already solo at that point.
Social aggro: radius of aggro has increased after change making all of the above more difficult.
Lazy aggro: seems to be working as intended and not really that relevant to the sneak pulling aspect other than the obvious..sneak won't remove you from hate list.

If anyone else has any info about their experiences with this that could be helpful. I hope the broken nature of aggro in it's current form is being looked at and will be fixed sooner rather than later. Pulling is quite a PITA atm and while I appreciate the added challenge there seems to be broken mechanics making it harder than it should be.