Pulling

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by EQBallzz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a follow up to this thread I have some additional info to add. Based on in-game conversations it seems many are still confused as to what the sneak change actually did or didn't do. Some saying that sneak pulling still works some % of the time. I'm not sure where people are getting that info but I don't believe that is accurate.

I think people are confusing sneak pulling (sneak pulling mobs before aggro) with what actually did change (sneak no longer works to mem blur mobs you already aggro'd). If you haven't aggro'd mobs yet and pull a group from sneaking position..various things can happen..some of which will be similar to the way sneak pulling worked before depending on spacing, which direction mobs are facing, geometry/LOS, mob/player level etc..On the other hand if you pull mobs and FD..then sneaking with the expectation that it will clear your aggro when you stand..that no longer works. At all. Also, FD itself has a chance to mem blur (though I think it's too low on P99 compared to live) so some might be seeing that and thinking it's the sneak still working. I don't believe that is the case.

Did Juggs yesterday and was able to solo split all the Juggs using a combination of sneak pulling (rarely on initial pull) and spawn point resetting (after pull). Some of the interesting things I noticed however is that FD mem blur is definitely still working but it's very unreliable. Mobs returning to spawn point usually mem blurs but this is also somewhat spotty.

When splitting the 6 Juggs + Tolapumj in Trak's lair I witnessed numerous times where I would pull and mobs that reset would re-aggro and other times after FD a mob would not re-aggro that wasn't reset yet (FD mem blur). I even had a single Jugg split from group and the rest all reset but when I stood up and the Jugg near me didn't re-aggro but all the mobs at spawn point did re-aggro. I think this is broken and shouldn't be happening. Mobs that returned to spawn point (and are far enough away from you) should *not* re-aggro and mobs should be mem-blurring from FD at a higher rate such that when you have 2-3+ mobs aggro'd you actually have a chance to mem-blur them.

So to recap:

Sneak pulling before aggro: still sorta works depending on numerous factors (spacing, which direction mobs are facing, geometry/LOS, mob/player level etc).
Sneak pulling after aggro: no longer works to clear aggro from a FD position (no mem blur).
FD mem blur: works but is far too low of a chance making it impossible to rely on unless you have a single mob that is outside of social aggro range of others but that makes it pointless for splitting because it's already solo at that point.
Social aggro: radius of aggro has increased after change making all of the above more difficult.
Lazy aggro: seems to be working as intended and not really that relevant to the sneak pulling aspect other than the obvious..sneak won't remove you from hate list.

If anyone else has any info about their experiences with this that could be helpful. I hope the broken nature of aggro in it's current form is being looked at and will be fixed sooner rather than later. Pulling is quite a PITA atm and while I appreciate the added challenge there seems to be broken mechanics making it harder than it should be.

FD blur was not very reliable, especially on higher level mobs / raid mobs.

It was very common for /q to clear aggro which is why we would have a 2 monks or monk tagger.

Monk would pull FD flop around till tagger could range pull a single or two or 3. Monk would /q or stay down entire fight. Then pop up get reaggroed repeat.

Mobs should reset on return to spawn but a few didn't. Gating mobs return to spawn but don't reset. Don't know the mechanics though maybe gate location is not at spawn point? Think it is but not 100

[EQBallzz]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FD blur was not very reliable, especially on higher level mobs / raid mobs.

It was very common for /q to clear aggro which is why we would have a 2 monks or monk tagger.

Monk would pull FD flop around till tagger could range pull a single or two or 3. Monk would /q or stay down entire fight. Then pop up get reaggroed repeat.

Mobs should reset on return to spawn but a few didn't. Gating mobs return to spawn but don't reset. Don't know the mechanics though maybe gate location is not at spawn point? Think it is but not 100

I do remember having to /q at times. My memory of that was that it was usually due to multiple roamers or roamers near other mobs that would keep getting hate passed to them in a snowball effect that could only be fixed in a reasonable amount of time with /q.

I'm sure there were other scenarios but that's the main one I remember. It wasn't super reliable but you could repeatedly flop and eventually blur a small group of mobs. I think the more you flopped without taking dmg the higher the chance to blur? You could also reliably use spawn point to blur. It seems to not be working like that on P99. My memory could be somewhat off though. It was a long time ago.

[derpcake]

Originally Posted by awfal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 Beads aren't currently classic.

On live they actually single pulled whatever mob killed your eyeball without any social aggro. You could literally send an eye into a pack of 10 mobs and solo pull 1 out.

same thing as pet pulling basically

[Rygar]

This weekend I was duoing in Fear and splitting was extremely tough. The mobs have a huge agro radius it seems and since it is an outdoor zone, they just run through walls and don't get stuck / path around objects.

Basically, my advice is if you can't split them after your first or 2nd FD, just let them reset and try again. After that, the mobs seem to always walk together back to spawn and are impossible to separate. On initial pull you may get a mob to 'wait around' while another paths back out of range.

Another inconvenience was the lazy agro. On some bad pulls I would wait 3-4 minutes and mobs would be halfway across zone. I would stand and 30-40 secs later I'd see a train running in the distance towards me.

I know lazy agro is 'supposed' to only be Kunark and Velious, but it is definitely active in the Hole (which is located in old world, but released during Kunark). So the Hole has lazy agro but Plane of Fear doesn't? Doesn't seem right, anyone else notice lazy aggro in old world zones?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know lazy agro is 'supposed' to only be Kunark and Velious,

Who told you this?

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This weekend I was duoing in Fear and splitting was extremely tough. The mobs have a huge agro radius it seems and since it is an outdoor zone, they just run through walls and don't get stuck / path around objects.

Basically, my advice is if you can't split them after your first or 2nd FD, just let them reset and try again. After that, the mobs seem to always walk together back to spawn and are impossible to separate. On initial pull you may get a mob to 'wait around' while another paths back out of range.

Another inconvenience was the lazy agro. On some bad pulls I would wait 3-4 minutes and mobs would be halfway across zone. I would stand and 30-40 secs later I'd see a train running in the distance towards me.

I know lazy agro is 'supposed' to only be Kunark and Velious, but it is definitely active in the Hole (which is located in old world, but released during Kunark). So the Hole has lazy agro but Plane of Fear doesn't? Doesn't seem right, anyone else notice lazy aggro in old world zones?

Fear is vanilla EQ, it was added after launch but before Kunark. It makes sense that it doesn't have lazy aggro.

In regards to splitting spawns without the old memblur you split with two prople . Monk repeatly flops around till one or two can be ranged pulled by tagger. Monk stays FD. After they're killed pop up and repeat. The old days of monk single pulling and joining fight was not classic.

[EQBallzz]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fear is vanilla EQ, it was added after launch but before Kunark. It makes sense that it doesn't have lazy aggro.

In regards to splitting spawns without the old memblur you split with two prople . Monk repeatly flops around till one or two can be ranged pulled by tagger. Monk stays FD. After they're killed pop up and repeat. The old days of monk single pulling and joining fight was not classic.

It's still possible if you can split with spawn point mem blur. It may not always be practical (and doesn't always work now) but can be done. Repeatedly did this with the Juggs without using a peeler. It can also still work if you get a FD mem blur but again this is mostly unreliable unless mob you are trying to drop aggro from is separated from other mobs. All that being said having someone to peel at the right time is advisable in most situations now I think.