Game Mechanics: Melee aggro generation

[Zeelot]

I noticed there's a thread regarding warrior hate generation, but the problem right now is not just warrior hate generation, it is melee hate generation in general, which is adversely affecting warrior aggro.

I came across a comprehensive test using the shadowknight terror line spells to accurately test melee hit aggro generation. For those that are unaware...the terror line of spells was introduced later on and each has a set numerical hate value.

Most of my information comes from these two threads: http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...=&pagenumber=1 / http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38

To clarify the results of the test I'll provide the hate values for each terror spell (confirmed at lucy.alkabor.com):

Terror of Darkness: Increase Hate by 200
Terror of Thule: Increase Hate by 600
Terror of Terris: Increase Hate by 510

The following spell explanation regarding the terror spells isn't relevant to this server, but is relevant for the melee hate testing that I’ll be quoting:

: Terrors have a hate cap on them when used as your first method of aggro on a mob, in addition to this mobs's have a hate cap on their initial aggro which most likely increases as the mobs level increases. . .Terrors work exactly as they're supposed to at range and are not coded to give low amounts of hate when outside of melee range.

Basically, the only thing to note from this is that the amount of hate generated on the initial terror casts in this test are negligable (likely below 100 hate).

Mob pulled with Terror of Terris[negligable aggro] then hit with Terror of Terris once more[510 hate], then engaged in melee.

Fine Steel Great Staff
Terror of Terris casted twice

Test 1:
12 swings until it turned on me (last round double attack)
232 damage
5 hits
7 misses

Test 2:
11 swings until it turned on me
281 damage
6 hits
5 misses

Test 3:
11 swings until it turned on me
299 damage
6 hits
5 misses

Test 4:
11 swings until it turned on me
278 damage
6 hits
5 misses

Test 5:
11 swings until it turned on me
335 damage
5 hits
6 misses

Test 6:
12 swings until it turned on me (last round double attack)
741 damage
11 hits
1 miss

Terror of Terris casted four times [negligable hate + 1530 hate]

Test 1:
29 swings until the mob was pulled off me
1109 damage
17 hits
12 misses

Test 2:
29 swings until the mob was pulled off me
1130 damage
16 hits
13 misses

At this point I confirmed that just like in the other tests our aggro is based on swings, so could shorten the number of tests needed significantly as I only need to confirm the number of swings to pull aggro.

Sullied Two-Handed Sword
Terror of Terris casted twice. [negligable hate + 510 hate]

Test 1:
11 swings until it turned on me (last round triple)
398 damage
5 hits
6 misses

Test 2:
9 swings until it turned on me
625 damage
9 hits
0 misses

Test 3:
11 swings until it turned on me (last round triple)
481 damage
7 hits
4 misses

Test 4:
9 swings until it turned on me
318 damage
4 hits
5 misses

Test 5:
10 swings until it turned on me (last round double)
612 damage
7 hits
3 misses

Terror of Terris casted four times. [negligable hate + 1530 hate]

Test 1:
23 swings until it turned on me
1173 damage
16 hits
7 misses

Test 2:
23 swings until it turned on me
822 damage
11 hits
12 misses


Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff

Terror of Terris casted twice [negligable hate + 510 hate]

Test 1:
10 swings until it turned on me (last swing double)
762 damage
8 hits
2 misses

Test 2:
9 swings until it turned on me
384 damage
4 hits
5 misses

Test 3:
9 swings until it turned on me
393 damage
5 hits
4 misses

Terror of Terris casted four times [negligable hate + 1530 hate]

Test 1:
24 swings until it turned on me
1268 damage
15 hits
9 misses

Test 2:
24 swings until it turned on me
1206 damage
13 hits
11 misses

Brael developed a pretty accurate formula from the above tests, which is as follows:

Using the formula of Initial Aggro+Subsequent Aggro=Swings*X*Hate per spell, with X equaling the % of the spell being cast (in this case, % of 510) and substituting Initial Aggro for the value Y we have the following formulas for the three weapons.

FS Staff: Y+510=5610X and Y+1530=14790X
Sword: Y+510=4590X and Y+1530=11730X
Enchanted Staff: Y+510=4590X and Y+1530=12240X

Solving these we find that for the value for the FS Great Staff is .11, the Sword is .14, and the Enchanted Staff is .13. However, there is actually a range here with the values being .105-.1149, .135-.1449, and .125-.1349. This gives the weapons the following hate ranges

Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36 39 dmg bonus) 54-59 range
Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48 49 dmg bonus) 69-74 range
Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42 42 bonus) 64-69 range

Finding a formula from this I determined there the aggro formula is Dmg+Dmg Bonus*Mod, this mod is somewhere between 1.22 and 1.29, more weapons need tested in order to narrow this formula down further.

One Handed weapons:

For 1h tests I used the following weapons:
Blade of Abgoration (20/39 13 bonus)
Dagger (3/20 13 bonus)
Tri-Plated Golden Hackle Hammer (14/24 13 bonus)

Blade of Abgoration
Terror of Terris casted twice.
22 swings until it turned on me
1603 damage
16 hits
6 misses

23 swings until it turned on me (last swing double)
968 damage
12 hits
11 misses

Terror of Terris casted four times.
63 swings until it turned on me
2928 damage
34 hits
29 misses

63 swings until it turned on me
2707 damage
39 hits
24 misses

Dagger
Terror of Terris casted twice.
48 swings until it turned on me (last swing double)
589 damage
25 hits
23 misses

48 swings until it turned on me (last swing double)
677 damage
28 hits
20 misses

48 swings until it turned on me
879 damage
34 hits
14 misses

Terror of Terris casted four times.
135 swings until it turned on me (last swing double)
2047 damage
53 misses
82 hits

134 swings until it turned on me
1899 damage
79 hits
55 misses

Tri-Plated Golden Hackle Hammer
Terror of Terris casted twice.
27 swings, (last swing double)
1216 damage
21 hits
6 misses

28 swings, (last swing double)
951 damage
14 hits
14 misses

Terror of Terris casted four times.
78 swings, (last swing double)
3184 damage
52 hits
26 misses

77 swings (last swing double)
3123 damage
52 hits
25 misses

Putting this data into the formulas, the results are

Hammer: 14 damage 13 bonus, 18-23 range x value was 20
Dagger: 3 damage 13 bonus, 8-13 range, x value was 10
Blade: 20 damage 13 bonus, 23-28 range, x value was 26

Right now I believe the formula for this is similar to the 2h one with the only difference being the modifier (dmg+dmg bonus*mod), however the mod for 1h is currently a much larger range with it varying from 0.35 to 0.65.

Further tests with different weapons bring about similar results:

Elder Wolf Jawbone (11/29)
Sharpened Mining Pick (16/31)
Prismatic Feeler (6/25)

Being 1h weapons and with me being 65, they all have a damage bonus of 13.

Elder Wolf Jawbone

Terror casted twice.
Test 1:
30 swings (last swing double)
620 damage
13 hits
17 misses

Test 2:
30 swings
1118 damage
20 hits
10 misses

Terror casted four times

Test 1:
86 swings (last double)
3089 damage
56 hits
30 misses

Test 2:
85 swings
2515 damage
47 hits
38 misses

With the number of swings confirmed, I moved onto the next weapon.

Sharpened Mining Pick
Terror casted twice

Test 1:
25 swings (last double)
1415 damage
18 hits
7 misses

Test 2:
25 swings (last double)
955
16 hits
9 misses

Test 3:
25 swings (last double)
990 damage
16 hits
9 misses

Test 4 (aka, the test where I was swearing wildly and blowing shrooms apart while my harvestered healed up because I couldn't confirm the swing number yet):
25 swings (last double)
1429 damage
18 hits
7 misses

Test 5:
26 swings (last double)
1182 damage
17 hits
9 misses

Terror casted four times

Test 1:
70 swings (last double)
2278 damage
47 hits
23 misses

Test 2:
70 swings
3580 damage
49 hits
21 misses

That one is now verified, moving onto the next weapon.

Prismatic Feeler

Terror casted twice

Test 1:
38 swings (last double)
889 damage
25 hits
13 misses

Test 2:
39 swings (last double)
1021 damage
28 hits
11 misses

Test 3 (this one wasnt needed, but I was repeating my work on the whip to verifiy it was done correctly, since like I said, I had an error somewhere):
38 swings
terris*2
26 hits
12 misses

Terror casted four times

Test 1:
108 swings (last double)
2152 damage
66 hits
42 misses

Test 2:
107 swings (last double)
2489 damage
73 hits
34 misses

Test 3 (same reason for this as Test 3 with two casts):
107 swings
1979 damage
62 hits
45 misses

Rather than me quoting more from the thread, I suggest that you look at http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38 to view the remainder of the tests and explanations behind them; these tests confirm the hypothesized formula and further explain hate generated from damage bonuses and even bash.

The results of these comprehensive tests show that there is an innate hate amount generated per swing, which is combined with melee damage to produce a total hate amount per attack.

I'm going to skip a bit here and jump straight to the hate ranges of the weapons tested . . .

BoA=23-28
Dagger=8-13
Hammer=18-23
Pick=18-23
Jawbone=18-23
Whip=23-28

And the ranges minus the weapons damage
BoA=3-8
Dagger=5-10
Hammer=4-9
Pick=2-7
Jawbone=7-12
Whip=7-12

Hopefully this information will help the devs streamline melee attack hate generation. I'm sure it'll create happier warriors and tanks on p1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Dantes]

Great info! Thanks for putting this together.

[kanras]

Looks like some fun bedtime reading. Thanks, Zeelot.

[baalzy]

Bump.

Has this been taken into account while melee aggro generation is being looked at?

[PureLo]

if melee can be fixed in essence of the tanks being able to tank as well as the proc rate/hate generation... we may actually be onto something

[Zeelot]

Bump! Hate generation per swing is still not right. Dual wielding classes who hit more often should be generating more aggro due to more swings vs the NPC. Total swings is what counts for aggro as a melee moreso than actual damage dealt.

For example in these EQlive tests (also posted in OP (test done in 2005)) - 70 swings took aggro off 4x terror casts, total damage was significantly different:

Test 1:
70 swings (last double)
2278 damage
47 hits
23 misses

Test 2:
70 swings
3580 damage
49 hits
21 misses

[khanable]

bump, any new info?

[Splorf22]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88535

I did some tests that seem to support the swing theory. The problem is that 2H is nerfed for unknown reasons.