Game Mechanics: sneak pull

[alsa]

Sneak pull should only work when the range attack "MISS". after patch even if range attack hit the mob, it no longer break sneak. Means sneak pull is easy mode now.

[baalzy]

09-25-2000

Originally Posted by http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8889

4) Using Thrown Weapons and Sneak to split.

With the changes to Sneak (no longer dropping when you use a thrown weapon ) another use has come up! In order for this to work, you must be using a ranged weapon with a ranger greater then the static aggro of the mob ( ie method # 3 listed above): engage sneak, throw, insta split. Personally I'm using summoned suriken for this, and I haven't had to use FD on a split since I got back into EQ. This includes splitting spawns where the mobs are literally on top of each other, although some times I have hit the mob i didn't have targeted, I have never aggro'ed the other.

Velious release date:
December, 2000.

[alsa]

And that post said anything about damage break sneak?

[Wrench]

although some times I have hit the mob i didn't have targeted, I have never aggro'ed the othe

just walk away

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by alsa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sneak pull should only work when the range attack "MISS". after patch even if range attack hit the mob, it no longer break sneak. Means sneak pull is easy mode now.

Almost. Sneak is still working on the back 180 degrees which is coded wrong. Have that fix working too. Just not patched.

Working as intended.

H

[Daldaen]

Thread resurrect:

The quote listed by Baalzy above is from this website:

http://www.monkly-business.net/forum...ead.php?t=8889

Definitely was posted in September 2000. But there is information left out:

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub35.ezboard.com/uautumndawnfire.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Autu mn Dawnfire</A>* at: 6/23/02 6:47:46 am

Let's also reexamine that quote:

With the changes to Sneak (no longer dropping when you use a thrown weapon ) another use has come up! In order for this to work, you must be using a ranged weapon with a ranger greater then the static aggro of the mob ( ie method # 3 listed above): engage sneak, throw, insta split. Personally I'm using summoned suriken for this, and I haven't had to use FD on a split since I got back into EQ. This includes splitting spawns where the mobs are literally on top of each other, although some times I have hit the mob i didn't have targeted, I have never aggro'ed the other.

May 2002 Patch Notes

Sneak only breaks when a character is hit, not when he hits someone.

Luclin release date December 2001

Discuss.

[Vega]

Seems like patch notes could be implying melee damage, not just ranged.

[Daldaen]

Monkly Business June 2002 (1month post Sneak change)

okay ijusth, with sneak + thrown weapon pulling, there is no need to FD, like at all. It's a huge time saver, as you aren't waiting on FD to recycle for the split, basically you reduce the range at which mobs will respond you're attack on the one you're tagging, it does not completely eliminate it, you're level will effect the agro range ( as always ), but it will get reduced by use of sneak.



It used to be that using a thrown weapon broke sneak, and you have to rehit it really fast to get this method to work ( so you needed to be sneaking again by the time the weapon actually connected meaning you needed a weapon with a pretty good range ). With the changes so that throwing doesn't break sneak, that is no longer the case, makes this a LOT eaiser to use, even with reltively short range weaopns like a shattering hammer or normal throwing stars.

A few things from this.

Yes, Ranged did break sneak before the Luclin patch.
Sneak should function like a Lull (where it REDUCES range, not completely eliminates... doesn't do that currently here).

Sneak should be useful for pulling but it should not be a /easybutton that allows you to single a mob from a pack of 10. There needs to be *some* distance between the mobs and they need to have their backs to you.

You should also have to time your throwing -> sneaking -> throwing item landing correctly. We could also use a timed throwing item fix while we are at it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monkly Business June 2002 (1month post Sneak change)



A few things from this.

Yes, Ranged did break sneak before the Luclin patch.
Sneak should function like a Lull (where it REDUCES range, not completely eliminates... doesn't do that currently here).

Sneak should be useful for pulling but it should not be a /easybutton that allows you to single a mob from a pack of 10. There needs to be *some* distance between the mobs and they need to have their backs to you.

You should also have to time your throwing -> sneaking -> throwing item landing correctly. We could also use a timed throwing item fix while we are at it.

pras

[Raev]

That's a great find Daldaen. When I talk to people like Cobblestone who monked on live they assure me they did not use sneak. The new 270 degree sneak radius has really trivialized splitting in my opinion: Rogues can split most camps in Sebilis, and raid monking is pretty trivial: generate huge train, sneak pull, profit. So it sounds like attacking breaking sneak + short pause while throwing + Haynar's increased blur chance on multiple feigns is going to make this shit a lot more classic.

Here are some other posts from that thread that back you up:

Originally Posted by Sept 2000

I saw mention on a rogue board that if you attack with a thrown weapon, and press sneak before it hits, then you can split a spawn.

Originally Posted by October 2000

Sneak pulling is essentially a myth. It was thought for a while that you could use a range weapon (bow, shurikan, whatever) in conjunction with sneak to pull one mob from a social group. This does not work. Sometimes only one will come, but that happens if sneak is used or not. Rangers used to believe that high archery skill was the cause

It's called lag

Originally Posted by October 2000

When you attack, even with a range weapon, the sneak effect is broken. ID works differently, because if you fail the skill you never attack and sneak is not broken.

Originally Posted by November 2000

Take a peak out and see the positioning of all the Minos. There is 1 mino that is just near the mino elder pit. He was always my first victim. I walk up slowly! into his aggro range seeing as he faces the direction of my pull spot. Before I even get to melee range he will move to atack you as you enter his SMALLER (due to sneak) aggro range. At this point BACK UP ASAP into your pull spot. Once he hits you he will break your sneak but you will most likely be out of aggro range of other minos by then. If your fast enough you will only get that 1 mino.

In other words sneak pulls work 100% when you don't attack.

Originally Posted by August 2001

I did finally get around to trying out the sneak ranged pulling stuff, once i got the range 100 summonable shruiken, it does work... kinda.

As we know 100 range is not enough for this.

Originally Posted by June 2002

okay ijusth, with sneak + thrown weapon pulling, there is no need to FD, like at all. It's a huge time saver, as you aren't waiting on FD to recycle for the split, basically you reduce the range at which mobs will respond you're attack on the one you're tagging, it does not completely eliminate it, you're level will effect the agro range ( as always ), but it will get reduced by use of sneak.

It used to be that using a thrown weapon broke sneak, and you have to rehit it really fast to get this method to work ( so you needed to be sneaking again by the time the weapon actually connected meaning you needed a weapon with a pretty good range ). With the changes so that throwing doesn't break sneak, that is no longer the case, makes this a LOT eaiser to use, even with reltively short range weaopns like a shattering hammer or normal throwing stars.

Verdict: +1 Classic Points for Daldaen