Spells: Glamour of Kintaz not working properly

[Para99]

Raev's thread about Rapture/GoK reminded me that GoK isn't working properly and I should stop procrastinating my bug report on it.

The main problem:
1) GoK should mez mobs levels 1 - 57
-- I've spoken to several other Enchanter's in game and asked on the forums and no one has told me they successfully mezzed a 56 or 57 mob with this on P99.

I also tried to cast it on The Undertaker Lord 3 times, which were all resisted. It's possible they were just regular resists, it's impossible for me to tell without the mez immunity messages that were on live in 2001, but I think he was level immune. Worth noting, he's not immune to mez because he can be Raptured. I would do more testing but it's just not practical to chain cast a 275 mana spell on a level 56+ mob.

Evidence:

posted June 07, 2001 11:18 PM
I've start doing king at level 55 too, it's tough to mez those myconids, but sitll do-able. level 57+ there starts to be quite a safe camp as long as your group is balanced.
This group is prefered :
Enchanter + Cleric + Warrior + Rogue + Shaman + Druid/Wiz
and rapture is not too useful there, it tooks too much mana and refresh too slow, just cant spare one of the 8 spell slot to load Rapture. GoK is enough for those 56 mobs, and ROOT is good there too, esp. if there's no shaman and u have to do the SLOW job too.

This doesn't really need an explanation, the poster says GoK works on level 56 mobs. Link

June 11, 2001
The adepts will CH, so if they are 55+, you'll have to use GoK to interrupt their casting, just make sure you have enough mana to keep the adds mez'd or you'll be in bigger trouble. The adept will run oom after 2-3 CH's and then it will finally die.

Same for this poster. Link

posted June 11, 2001
To stop the 56 adepts from CHing, I found that mana sieve and torment of agril work nicely together, and are much easier on your mana than GoK. Mana sieve until the mushroom is down a bit in health, then torment it, and keep sieving. It might get off one CH, but if it is slowed, it won't be hurting you or your cleric's mana too much, and has never got a second CH off when I used this.

This poster is saying while GoK works on level 56 mobs, it's not the most efficient method. Link

posted June 21, 2001 10:25 AM
Been doing fine in king since I first went at 54.
The rapture stun tactic is a great idea if you can fit it into a slot. Gok works but its not the same resistance so... you take some risk in a CH.

There is also the fact that adepts cheat. They can CH even if you successfully stun. For some of these the only solution ive found is to mana seive, tot, and torment. For some reason even though these adepts have ungodly amounts of mana, if you seive enough, they will stop healing.

When facing a 56 reaver and a 54 warrior, tell your party to GET ON THE REAVER NOW. It's the difference between an easy low-mana mez and a costly 24 second bizatch of a crowd control method. Same applies with the 56 reaver and a 55 priest... yes, its weird, but you need to trust your mana here. Get on the highest mob.

This poster basically says the same thing. GoK will work on 56 mobs, but since it doesn't have the -1000MR mod that Rapture does it's safer to just use Rapture. Link

July 25 - August 23, 2001
Description: This is an upgraded mesmerise spell.
It has a very large mana cost for its short duration, but is balanced with the ability to affect 55+ mobs

It also carries a much more effective memory blur than previous mesmerise spells.

This is the spell description on Caster's Realm that Wayback Machine captured in August, 2001. The July, 2001 capture is the same but that's the earliest I can get to load. Link

THIS SPELL IS NICE.., By Quezar (1/28/2001)

This spell is nice on any type of monster level 55 or higher. This goes for Seb Guardians, shrooms,all the deep stuff in Sebilis.
Havent been back to the hole yet to see if I can actually mez those golems, but I'm sure I probably can now.

Link

SPELL WILL NOT HOLD ON 56+, By Songwind k'treva (6/9/2001)

Considering your lvl is 52 a lvl 55 mob will be red to you, dazzle will *not* hold on a lvl 56 mob. GoK is needed for this.

This poster is replying to another poster telling him that Dazzle wont mez level 56 mobs, but GoK will. Link

GLAMOUR OF KINTAZ, By Fyre d`kaotik (1/28/2001)

If you dont follow the enchanter boards, it's been stated by several 55+ enchanters that this is the only mez spell that works on mobs 55+. Dazzle reports that (this target cannot be mezmerized (with this spell)). They dont want those super powerful mobs mez'd for long.

This poster specifically mentions that mobs that give the immune to mez message due to level can be mezzed with GoK. Link

EFFECTIVE?, By Dowd "the dood" muk (1/28/2001)

Correct, this spell will work on Mobs lvl 56 or greater, while lesser spells in the series fail. The duration is short and the mana cost extreme. This was done to lessen the impact of the enchanter against extreme level mobs. I did some work in Sebilis against Juggernauts and it becomes quite difficult to handle 2-3 mobs of this caliber. Still, a useful spell against very high lvl mobs and a great addition to the series.

This poster specifically mentions mezzing Juggs with it. Link

RE: Groupin juggs
Dec 04 2001
Anonymous
I very much agree with you Mand.

Though, a few additions:

a) Enchanter 54+ will do. They need to have Glamour of Kintaz, but even the lowely 34 Tash is enough to allow a 56+ shaman to reliably land slow.

b) While Juggs cannot be mes'd. They can be enraptured by the Glamour or the 57 Mes. Even though it's not very mana effecient to do so, Landing a GoK while the debuffs are cast can make it alot easier for the Shaman to get that slow in.

This poster again mentions that Juggs can only be mezzed with Rapture or GoK. The post was written on the exact day Luclin was released, but I think it's safe to assume it wasn't a Luclin change Link

5/23/00
> I guess Verant really doesn't want 55+ mobs messed. Does enthrall
> work? Or is it one of the intermediate spells between mes and
> dazzle? I forget.
No only the level 54 Glamour will, and the upgrade at 59 I guess, which
costs 500 mana duration unknown as yet.

This poster is replying to another poster saying only GoK and Rapture can be used to mez mobs over level 55. This is from one of the Google groups Rygar has linked I'm not sure if the link will actually work but here it is. Link

6/13/00
Enchanter: these guys got hit bad because of 56+ monsters can't
be messed. They have to use glamour of kintaz which is ridiculously
inefficient. Their haste spells are pointless and their color shift
line gets pointless mana draining upgrades.

This poster is talking about which classes were upgraded the most with Kunark, and indicates Enchanter mezzes outside of GoK (and presumably Rapture) didn't work on the mobs over level 55. This is another Google group post. Link

(NO DATE)
You will need at least one 54+ enchanter. Glamour of Kintaz is a nice near-foolproof way to mez a jugger.
That said about the enchanter, your main way to crowd control should be root + turgurs, and, if you're having problems keeping them off your casters, split tanking. Glamour of Kintaz will leave your enchanter OOM most of the time, and unable to buff or to dazzle the reets (most of which can be mezzed with plain old dazzle).

This is the only evidence I have that doesn't have a date, but the context of the guide suggests to me it was written during Velious. Link



I've done quite a bit of reading on this, and the only thing I can find that suggests GoK was capped at 55 is the line in the Lucy history

2002-07-24 09:28 Changed Slot 1 from "Mesmerize(2)" to "Mesmerize(2/58)"

Link But Lucy didn't use the 2/Max Level until 2002 because every mez just has "Mesmerize (2)" until 2002. In my extensive reading I can't find anyone complaining that GoK wasn't working as intended.

I know my personal testing doesn't count for much with only a few casts, so if anyone knows of a 56 or 57 mob that would be easier to try chain casting this on I'd be happy to give it a try.

Secondary Problem:
-- There is also a small amount of evidence from Casters Realm and Lucy that GoK should have a 0.0 recast time in this era, which isn't the case on p99.

2003-01-15 11:04 Changed Recast Time from 0.0 seconds to 2.2 seconds

Link

And the 2001 Casters Realm description its self

Recast Time: Instant

Link

[Para99]

Originally Posted by Para99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's impossible for me to tell without the mez immunity messages that were on live in 2001

I was wondering should I make a separate bug report about this? Is it only relevant in case of a new server since presumably immunity messages for more than just mezzes will come with the Chardok patch? I can't find what date mez immunity messages started, but it was before October 8, 2001.

OCTOBER 8, 2001
NPCs that were highly magic resistant in order to make them immune to certain spells can now be given specific immunity to those spells. This means that they can be made immune to critical spells, as intended, and still be generally less resistant to magic. Players will receive a message similar to the one that is already given for Mesmerization spells when they cast a spell on an NPC that it is specifically immune to.

Link

Prior to that patch, Abashi did say mez immune messages were "always" sent. To me, that makes it sound like they had been in game for quite a while before October 2001.

Originally Posted by Abashi

October 5, 2001
Players will now also receive messages when an NPC is immune to a particular type of spell, much like messages regarding mesmerization have always been sent.

Link

[Baylan295]

Related:

Patch notes related to mez immunity messages, predating Kunark by two whole weeks. What was mez immune prior to Kunark? Giants and dragons? Anything else? Mobs that are immune to Mez should give a notification regarding the same. As far as I know, that is not true on this server.

www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000410.html

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Related:

Patch notes related to mez immunity messages, predating Kunark by two whole weeks. What was mez immune prior to Kunark? Giants and dragons? Anything else? Mobs that are immune to Mez should give a notification regarding the same. As far as I know, that is not true on this server.

www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000410.html

Plenty, old world rules is something like any mob 55+ cannot be charmed or mezzed

[Para99]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Related:

Patch notes related to mez immunity messages, predating Kunark by two whole weeks. What was mez immune prior to Kunark? Giants and dragons? Anything else? Mobs that are immune to Mez should give a notification regarding the same. As far as I know, that is not true on this server.

www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000410.html

Nice find Baylan. I searched through that site for that patch note but I must have overlooked it.

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plenty, old world rules is something like any mob 55+ cannot be charmed or mezzed

Not to nitpick because they should still show the "immune the mez efect of this spell", but the majority of 55+ mobs are only level immune, not mez immune, because they can be Raptured once it becomes available and the ones 1-57 should be able to be Glamour'd unless they are MR immune, giants, or something like that. The mezzes themslves, Mesmerize through Dazzle, cap at 55 which makes anything over 55 unmezzable in classic.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plenty, old world rules is something like any mob 55+ cannot be charmed or mezzed

I understand the old world rule, but there are not a ton of 55+ mobs in the old world...

[Para99]

Bump. I've tried to find more evidence to support this and have came up empty, but I also think the lack of posts of people complaining is sort-of evidence in its self.

If GoK had the same level cap as every other pre-50 mez and cost more than 2x as much mana as Dazzle for only 36 seconds of mez I think a lot of people would have been complaining.

[Pringles]

bump

Kintaz should work on mobs up to 57.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030803...tml?spell=1691

This is as far back as I can go on archive but searching patch notes bring up no changes other than lowered mana costs in 2000.
Asked Rygar for spdat data so we'll see if we can get some more info.

[Pringles]

Sadly the information we are looking for is server sided similarly to the blur % chance. Here is the spdat.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting to note that there was no -10 MR modifier at any point in the classic era as I checked spdat's going back to Kunark release. This spdat image is from 04-04-01.

Will try to gather more info but it's pretty bare.

[Pringles]

i missed the OP's evidence and linked stuff he already provided.

However according to the the spdat there shouldn't be a -10 mr check so when this is fixed that should also be changed.