Paladin stats & race

[rajax]

A non-classic recommendation, but would it seriously screw class balance if paladins like later expansion clerics could still get their standard meditate server tick mana regen as though they were sitting if under yaulp and attacking?

This might actually be a thing in modern EQ but I stopped paying attention or had the free time to play anymore around the pirate mini-expansion.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by White_knight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doesnt make sense my dude: how does not having a larger mana pool not help someone when burning their mana, you sure this what you mean?

Also Pacify is a 100 mana spell, if sucessful its going to cost you 600 mana to pac 6 mobs as you described, calm is 50 mana spell so 250 mana but only works up to level 50 mobs - if you had to pacify 2x times thats 1200 mana, seems like that emergency larger mana pool would be needed after all.

You keep rattling on about mana regen too: it's a terrible arguement because mana regen is available to both spec builds - mana regen isnt exclusive to a certain build type - I dont get what this point is??
What your describing is a false economy of mana: a smaller pool regens quicker? Guess what? You're getting the exact same regen with a larger pool too, it's just when you hit 100% mana a wisdom/mana built paladin hits 60% mana.

I said soothe, not pacify. Soothe works on mobs up to 55 and costs only 30 mana. Soothe + atone is a solid synergy, though I appreciate a little team work is required.

I talk about mana regen, not because I suggest wearing it for any one particular build (obviously all builds should if they can), but because mana regen is the limiting factor on how many spells you can cast across an extended period of time.

Given the same mana regen both Paladins will be casting the same number of spells. The exception is the wisdom paladin gets a one time boost of whatever their difference in mana pool is (and only if he gets really low on mana). He won't get that benefit again unless the low wis build paladin ends up sitting around at full mana, which if he does I'd ascribe to being a player mistake, not a build error.

[Jimjam]

I think the difference in our positions probably comes down in a difference in perspective on what a wis build paladin would be and what an AC/hp orientated paladin would be.

I interpret a wis build as sacrificing large amounts of defence for wisdom (as per the profile you liked with the jewelled mask instead of a targishin mask for similar money / trivial camp). Likewise when I say hp/AC orientated builds I mean one that takes defence and ignores other stats. I'm not really talking about 1400 AC builds, that is way beyond the point of diminished returns for most content, I agree.

But in like for like gear comparisons most of the way up, I don't think so.

[DMN]

I thought soothe capped at 40 or 45?

[Danth]

The level caps usually associated with the lull spell line were mostly added later on when those types of spells were revamped during the post-classic era.

Danth

[Boarder981]

Wow, my original post sparked quite a debate! Lots of good info and an interesting read, to say the least [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s been so long since I played any class with Lull, so can someone please explain the mechanics re: resists, crit failures, etc

Also, at what point does Charisma have such a big impact that it’ll almost always succeed? 150 CHA? 200 CHA?

On a related note, how much DEX is needed to actually have a decent proc rate? I’ve heard the gains per point are small, but I don’t know how valid that claim is. I would consider dumping some into DEX if it makes a big difference, but if it’s something I need to boost to 150-200 in order to see noticeable gains, I may as well leave it and get DEX gear later if I feel the need (after all, I most likely won’t be using a proc weapon ALL the time).

Honestly I’m willing to bypass starting points in STA for either CHA or DEX. 15 SAT equates to what, 80 HP at level 60? Not a huge gain IMO, especially since it’s likely easier to hit 200 STA than CHA or DEX.

And then there’s the choice of Tunare for Natures Defender... ugh, too many things to consider! I’m probably making this way more difficult than it should be lol.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Boarder981 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m probably making this way more difficult than it should be lol.

You absolutely are. For all the discussion, Paladin starting race and statistics very much fall into the category of, "splitting hairs." No matter what you do it isn't going to dramatically affect your life in-game. That being said, making the plans and working out this or that can be fun in and of itself, so have at it. No harm in being over-prepared.

Danth

[Pint]

Pick dwarf 5 in agi rest in Wis, didn't need all this discussion to know what the optimal path was

[Boarder981]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You absolutely are. For all the discussion, Paladin starting race and statistics very much fall into the category of, "splitting hairs."

You’re absolutely right. It’s just what I always do when it comes to things like this. Too much analysis.

I was wondering if anyone has insight into the other questions in my last post.

1. How exactly do Lull mechanics work? It’s been so long that I don’t remember the details
2. How much CHA is necessary for Lull to almost always work?
3. How much does DEX actually affect proc rate, and at what point do you actually notice a difference?

Of course, I can create separate posts with these questions, but figured I’d ask here first.

[Troxx]

As usual Jimjam hits the nail on the head. Repeatedly.

My paladin needs more wisdom/mana, but I rarely find myself full mana with the limited pool I have. This is especially true after hitting 59 and getting the celestial cleansing spell. That heal is just too efficient and nice (1.5 sec cast) to not use routinely on both self and group mates. If I could choose between having 100ac or 60 more wisdom, however, I’d opt for the ac. Thankfully such trade offs don’t really exist on p99 without making some extreme choices (that also involves very high end raid gear).

For now my pathetic 1500 mana at level 60 gets the job done well. Threat is CHEAP for us to generate. Big mana expenditures for me are the heals I toss around, buffs I refresh, and stuns I strategically use. In a fast paced group I like to hover between 70-80% mana. It leaves enough reserve to heal/root/stun/calm liberally if the situation calls for it and enough mana deficit to capitalize on those moments I have to opportunity to sit on my ass for a pinch to get mana back. If I get to full mana, I preemptively refresh a round of Divine Str buffs +/- ghetto symbols and ac as needed.

Same concept with the shaman ... I try never to be full mana unless I’ve already refreshed every buff that isn’t already fresh.

Caveat: Warrior is what I take to primary raids. Paladin is for group fun or trashy clear raids without massive hitting raid targets at the end of them. If my paladin were raid exclusive I’d put more emphasis on wisdom. Those heals come in handy.