Green mechanics questions

[Canelek]

I would like that 1973 Barracuda please.

[Reecon]

Just cause something is classic doesnt mean exploits and major bugs shouldnt be fixed at the start of the server, there is a reason sony changed things alot in classic and some of those changes should definitely be in at the beginning instead of letting ppl who now know about them exploit til they are fixed (alot of thee exploits, bugged quests etc wasnt even known by the vast majority of the playerbase in classic til they were fixed, unlike here on p99 where practically everyone knows these exploits and bugged quests)

[Reecon]

Originally Posted by Reecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just cause something is classic doesnt mean exploits and major bugs shouldnt be fixed at the start of the server, there is a reason sony changed things alot in classic and some of those changes should definitely be in at the beginning instead of letting ppl who now know about them exploit til they are fixed (alot of thee exploits, bugged quests etc wasnt even known by the vast majority of the playerbase in classic til they were fixed, unlike here on p99 where practically everyone knows these exploits and bugged quests)

Cant seem to edit my post so just adding that i think even things like jboots being in najena, manastones, and DE masks everyone can use shouldnt be in game at start either, there was a reason they were removed or moved to quest form, by lvl 30 you can eliminate mobs outrunning you by farming jboots in najena and you eliminate nighttime with the DE mask that give you ultra vision, one of the reasons to even start a DE in the first place and manastones are just self explanatory (cleric + CH + manastone = EZ mode)

[Tecmos Deception]

There's no way nilbog and rogean are going to remove such staples of classic EQ as manastones and guises, no matter the arguments you make about them being overpowered or how verant in hindsight decided they should have been done differently.

As I've talked about on these forums 100 times over the years, there's the classic experience and there's classic mechanics. Nobody is going to manage to fully recreate either of those things, and even less so will they fully recreate them simultaneously.

P99 is nilbog and rogean (and many others) working on their vision of the right balance between classic mechanics, including the quirks and "bugs" and "exploits" that they feel help make this era of EQ so memorable for a lot of folks, and the classic experience, as difficult as it may be to give "the classic experience" a definition anyone can agree on. We're just along for the ride.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Reecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cant seem to edit my post so just adding that i think even things like jboots being in najena, manastones, and DE masks everyone can use shouldnt be in game at start either, there was a reason they were removed or moved to quest form, by lvl 30 you can eliminate mobs outrunning you by farming jboots in najena and you eliminate nighttime with the DE mask that give you ultra vision, one of the reasons to even start a DE in the first place and manastones are just self explanatory (cleric + CH + manastone = EZ mode)

I'd much rather have JBoots in Najena with the list mechanism rather than people being able to camp the AC to sell MQs for the JBoots quest. MQ selling might be one of my least favorite abuses of classic mechanics. The list mechanic, if it applies to the AC, will of course cut down on this a bit on Green, but the ability to put yourself on the list to sell a no drop quest item for thousands of plat will still be there.

At least when the boots drop in Najena you can't MQ them.

[fastboy21]

Staring at the book, no tab targeting, no pet window, no multiple hot bars, no automemm'ing of spell lists, no ducking to interrupt...

These are all things that are meant to be class balancing features in vanilla. Thankfully, many of them will be on p99.

It isn't perfect vanilla-classic, but its a pretty awesome simulated version of classic EQ.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no way nilbog and rogean are going to remove such staples of classic EQ as manastones and guises, no matter the arguments you make about them being overpowered or how verant in hindsight decided they should have been done differently.

As I've talked about on these forums 100 times over the years, there's the classic experience and there's classic mechanics. Nobody is going to manage to fully recreate either of those things, and even less so will they fully recreate them simultaneously.

P99 is nilbog and rogean (and many others) working on their vision of the right balance between classic mechanics, including the quirks and "bugs" and "exploits" that they feel help make this era of EQ so memorable for a lot of folks, and the classic experience, as difficult as it may be to give "the classic experience" a definition anyone can agree on. We're just along for the ride.

I think the thing is ... for a long time we thought we knew the line: it was something like "mechanics ALWAYS ... unless there is a technical limitation (eg. Titanium can't do a true classic UI), a truly massive environment-altering (and likely staff-impacting) mechanic (eg. mass AoEing), or a one in a million arbitrary staff violation of classic (eg. OOT boat direction).

But that perception is proving incorrect. Green will be missing plenty of classic mechanics, and as Danth noted, they don't seem to follow that previous pattern. I'm not in any way faulting the staff on this, and as the Non-Classic Compendium shows, the staff have many non-obvious concerns which impact their decisions. I also don't think the staff owes a "classic line in the sand" (or anything else) to anyone.

BUT ... I think people act better when they have better information. I think people would respond with less negative/"that seems wrong!" posts if the staff could come out and say "here is the general criteria we use to decide whether something is an exploit that we (unclassically) won't implement, or whether it's a classic feature that we will implement (even though everyone hates it, or even though the original Verant devs patched it out a few months later)."

It's not about where they draw the line: it's their server, draw it how they want. And again, they don't owe it to anyone to share how they draw that line, or to draw it in any consistent way ... it's just that if they could let us know where the line is, at least with broad strokes, then no one would be surprised when a decision puts their favorite/least favorite thing on the "other" side of the line.

P.S. Simple example: I still don't feel the SG nerf is consistent with P99's past decisions. As I remember it (and memories are crap I know) EVERYONE knew about the SG glitch. I wasn't even a raider then and I knew about it! Being able to get through SG safely without knowing how to make the run or having to wait for a Succor is hardly game-altering, when compared to stuff like item recharging. I truly believe less people even knew how to recharge in 2001 than knew how to glitch through SG ...

... but again, I'm not saying I'm right and the devs are wrong! I'm just saying that from my limited perspective the decision seems wrong, and if there was an explicit criteria (even a vague one) that explained why the staff sees that as a glitch and recharging as a feature, I'd better understand their decision. But even if I don't understand it ... hey, free server [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

[Lojik]

I think you need to balance classic input v. classic output. Fully classic client/game mechanics are only one input, the other can't really be controlled (players with 20 years of experience, better connections/computers/information available/3rd party tools/3rd party talk.) With so much info available about EQ (even early glitches and what not) they will add in the classic mechanics that make it harder and keep out the ones that make it easier, since it is infinitely easier to exploit than on live due to available information. On live once a few people learned and exploited something it was nerfed. Here everyone would line up to exploit resulting in unclassic outcomes. People would just do the elemental armor quest then tumpy tonics to 50. Doesn't sound like a fun green experience to me.

[fastboy21]

There are just too many things to consider and too little time before launch.

Each decision about “classic, so in” vs. “not classic, so out” vs. “classic, but intentionally kept out” vs. “not classic, but intentionally put in” vs “classic, but we can’t add it in titanium” vs. “ not classic, but we can’t remove it from titanium”...-every situation feels unique and selected sometimes arbitrarily. It is hard to predict how staff will rule any element anymore.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is hard to predict how staff will rule any element anymore.

That sounds classic to me! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]