Should Manastone (and such) drop on Green?

[Squabbles123]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Should the legacy / nerfed items such as Manastone, Locket, Beads drop on the upcoming Green server, if it's destined to be merged with Blue after a while?

Or should the items never drop on Green to start with?

Yes it should drop, and green should NEVER be merged with Blue.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I bet the toxicity is not as bad as we think. P99 has been maturing well, scout roll, TOV changes. My prediction is it will be toxic initially but the insanity will subside after a while.

The rolls only happened because the alternative (a clickfest) is objectively worse to everyone (except cheaters and people with insanely good connections).

The ToV changes only happened because GM Braknar threw himself on his sword, and in the larger perspective they only happened because the players were creating so much misery with their neckbearding in ToV that the staff had to make changes ... not for the player base, but for the staff (read Braknar's logs if you have any delusion that the changes were made for the player base).

So no I don't see either of those as in any way indicating that individual camps for prized items will have any sanity whatsoever. If anything ToV suggests the opposite.

P.S. IMHO the only way to bring sanity to these camps on Green (and sanity in general to contested camps) is to change to the rules. We can blame the players all we want, but humans in systems will always act certain ways.

The current rules all but make players act the way they do. But you can't change how human beings work: players will always want pixels, and they will always do whatever they can to get them in the system the GMs create. You can only change the system, and then rely on that to change behavior.

[FatherSioux]

Weird Loramin isn’t happy with the progress the server has made. Despite your thoughts on why, they happened. I call that progress.

[honeybee12874]

Originally Posted by Squabbles123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes it should drop, and green should NEVER be merged with Blue.

Of course the question is, what should happen to those characters on Green when the server resets?

I'm with you though - I don't like the idea of those characters merging into Blue. It kind of feels like it would be putting a square peg into a round hole, if you know what I mean? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm curious to hear more details on how exactly this will work...

[FatherSioux]

Maybe instead of merging with blue they could create a new blue for these recycled servers to merge into. So green hits end of life and it gets turned into the “Nexus”. Green 2.0 opens at classic and at its end merges with the nexus. Green 3.0...4.0 etc.

[maskedmelon]

I'm disinclined to believe green will be all that toxic. Staff just added 6 new guides in prep for green, one of whom has already demonstrated he's a cowboy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. By the time green launches, they'll've a solid 6mo+ under their belt and I don't expect them to put up with much shenninigans. ToV changes demonstrate that the team will tweak the classic paradigm as necessary, but the goal remains the same. I fully expect the wrath of staff if asshattery gets out of hand though^^

[Sizar]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we had a classic Play Nice Policy then I would be 100% in favor of these classic items. But we don't, and we can't, because we don't have paid GMs.

As a result, all of these camps are going to be a nightmare, bringing out the absolute worst in people, and I think the server would be better off without them ... though if I were a betting man I'd bet on the staff leaving them in, for the same reason melon mentioned.

This. Super bad idea to have these items available. GM's don't have the time to mediate the disputes that will happen the second someone is high enough level to hold down one of these camps solo or with a group. For those of us on Blue who do not have any of these items sure it would be sweet, but overall this is what Green is going to be about more than anything, and it will be too toxic.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Weird Loramin isn’t happy with the progress the server has made. Despite your thoughts on why, they happened. I call that progress.

I never said that. Of course I'm happy with the progress "the server" has made on things like rolls.

What I'm saying is, "the server" is not a thing: it's a composition of thousands of players and a few GMs, and those are all people. NOTHING about the two things you mentioned in any way suggests that the people involved will behave any differently.

Again, if anything it suggests the exact opposite. ToV was only changed (unclassically I might add) because the players were behaving so badly that the staff couldn't handle all of the drama. Again, if you don't believe me, go read Braknar's logs on Reddit.

So feel free to keep telling yourself that because the players made the staff so miserable in ToV that they were forced to abandon the core project goal (classic EQ), that it somehow indicates "progress", and that people will be nice to each other on Green.

But I maintain that it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expect different results. The only thing that will change player behavior (on Green or anywhere else) is a change to the system ... ie. a rules change. And the only hope of that that we've seen isn't the things you mentioned: it's what Melon just mentioned (the hiring of new guides) ... which absolutely is a rules change (eg. the rule on names went from being a non-rule to actually being a rule .. or at least half of one, as it seems like half of it is being enforced now).

[Fammaden]

No, these are for the most part items that were changed or removed because the original devs recognized they shouldn't have existed in that form. If they'd known better from the beginning the items never would have dropped in the first place.

P99 has a chance to know better from the beginning, but I suspect they will stick with this idea of following the timeline.

I don't see any reason to follow the nerf schedule so strictly while also taking the stance that changes like bard and chardok ae target limits should be active day one.

[honeybee12874]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe instead of merging with blue they could create a new blue for these recycled servers to merge into. So green hits end of life and it gets turned into the “Nexus”. Green 2.0 opens at classic and at its end merges with the nexus. Green 3.0...4.0 etc.

I had this same exact thought myself, glad to hear someone else mention it. I think this would be a great idea.