Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you are basically trying to argue that because I didn't provide the evidence in the exact manner Troxx asked for, it is not valid. You have ZERO evidence to back up this claim.

I did not say that the "evidence" you provided is not valid, what I ACTUALLY said is that you have opted out of the direct comparison Troxx was interested in (and repeatedly asked you to participate in), which is a fact. You may be upset about it, it doesn't change the facts. You may also post whatever you wish, it will not change the facts.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We have to take all of Troxx's claims on faith. We have to assume his parses are in the location he claims, we have to assume his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30% and not just the puller, etc. I am not sure why I am the bad guy here. I provided better, more concrete evidence than he did lol. He needs to prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%.

I did not call you a bad guy. The fact is you could do what Troxx did and as he (and others) repeatedly requested you to do, but for whatever reason you won't, therefore "The problem is you are basically" conceding. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only concession here is from Troxx, because he admitted multiple times his data is incorrect, and still refuses to provide "correct" data. If that is true, he literally has no data.
The actual data so far:

Not only could you simply participate if you were not opting to concede by refusing to provide data in the format Troxx did, let's be clear that Troxx did not "admit his data is incorrect"; exactly what he HAS stated is visible on his post history in this thread, and equally visible are your posts including and thus exposing multiple misunderstandings/misrepresentations, pointless hypotheticals and raw math which (as has been pointed out to you by many others in this thread) does not translate into reality. Lastly, just as visible are the multiple replies to your posts, which as noted many times, you continue to either misunderstand or misinterpret, or move goalposts. I present the entirety of this thread as my evidence, and you may choose to post whatever you wish, it won't change any of these facts.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP picked Shaman over Mage. Got it.

OP Picked Shaman over CLERIC. I present the above Quote as further evidence of you misunderstanding and/or misconstruing. Are you arguing from bad faith?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

OP didn't pick a Mage at all, which means the pro-Mage side lost[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Utility (Necromancer) won over a bit more DPS. It's the same reason you would pick a Shaman. A bit of DPS doesn't generally matter much.

I am not sure why you are taking their side cyxthryth. Since you came in hot with some weird take on an older thread, I can only assume you just have a grudge against me.

Just because I didn't provide evidence in the asked for manner, doesn't make it invalid, or lesser than Troxx's. As I said before, my data is actually provable, and his isn't. That makes it superior. I am not saying he is lying. The problem is his own data backs up my points, and his only excuse for that is "my parser isn't working correctly, it either bugged out or undervalued DPS". It is up to him to prove that his parser is indeed lowering his MAGE's DPS by 30%, and not just the puller.

I have not move goalposts at all. We are comparing DPS. I got the data for that. The only goalpost moving being done are the people claiming that data which isn't gathered in Troxx's manner is invalid. That is the semantic game being played because his data is proving my points.

For people interested in the topic at hand, the real data so far:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[plzrelax]

Please make it stop

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by plzrelax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please make it stop

Ask Troxx and friends to stop trolling or provide better evdence, and it will[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I am sorry, but trolling and burying your head in the sand will not change the facts.

For people interested, the data so far:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[Troxx]

I bet if I post this post he will compulsively post again for no other reason than being the last to post

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP didn't pick a Mage at all, which means the pro-Mage side lost[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Utility (Necromancer) won over a bit more DPS

I am not sure why you are taking their side cyxthryth. Since you came in hot with some weird take on an older thread, I can only assume you just have a grudge against me.

I am not taking sides. Just like I did in the previous thread you are referring to, I am ONLY stating facts, and asking questions. I cannot help how you feel about it, and I cannot help that you have repeatedly labeled me as a troll.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because I didn't provide evidence in the asked for manner, doesn't make it invalid or lesser than Troxx's.

You can choose to believe whatever you wish, it doesn't change the fact that you have opted out of participating with Troxx in a way that would allow for 1-to-1 comparison. Mind you multiple requests have been made for multiple scenarios, not just one... and none of which you were interested in participating in. I present the entirety of this thread as my evidence, please provide counterevidence?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said before, my data is actually provable, and his isn't. That makes it superior. I am not saying he is lying. The problem is his own data backs up my points, and his only excuse for that is "my parser isn't working correctly, it either bugged out or undervalued DPS". It is up to him to prove that his parser is indeed lowering his MAGE's DPS by 30%, and not just the puller.

For people interested in the topic at hand, the real data so far:

"The problem is" that what you have "proved" thus far is that you are unwilling to participate in (any of) the (many) activities that have been requested of you (multiple times by many people) in this thread, and that you are either unable or unwilling to argue from good faith. Among other things - for example you might note I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt to NOT simply call you a troll, unlike how you have replied to me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am sorry cyxthrythm, but your arguments are nonsense. I will not be replying to you again in this thread until you stop repeating nonsense. You can check your post history too. You came in hot trying to troll me about a 4 month old thread, while contributing nothing to the discussion. Do not try to play the victim here[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your "it's a fact that you didn't provide data the way Troxx asked" rhetoric is not a valid argument. It doesn't matter that it is a fact, because it is also a fact Troxx's data shows 79 DPS. It matches my calculations perfectly, and he can't prove the supposed 30% undervaluing his parser is doing[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That trumps whatever point you are trying to prove.

You can also choose to believe whatever you wish, but Everquest is a video game (computer program), and all of those are created on fixed math and rules. The DPS data I provided is accurate, and matches the predictive math I did earlier. It is also better evidence, as it is in-game videos with logs you can cross reference. It will still be accurate regardless of what you post here, while we have to take it on faith that Troxx's data is accurate, since he himself is claiming his parser isn't working correctly lol.

For the people interested in the real data:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP didn't pick a Mage at all, which means the pro-Mage side lost[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP very obviously chose classes based on preferences or other factors and veered away from what any of us would consider the best min/max choice. The fact that you're actually trying to spin this as support for your stupid bullshit is astounding.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP very obviously chose classes based on preferences or other factors and veered away from what any of us would consider the best min/max choice. The fact that you're actually trying to spin this as support for your stupid bullshit is astounding.

Someone's mad the pro Mage team lost. Utility won out over DPS, which is why Necro/Shaman were preferred. It matches my arguments, while disproves yours.

The current data, for people interested:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am sorry cyxthrythm, but your arguments are nonsense. I will not be replying to you again in this thread until you stop repeating nonsense.

Sounds familiar. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your "it's a fact that you didn't provide data the way Troxx asked" rhetoric is not a valid argument. It doesn't matter that it is a fact, because it is also a fact Troxx's data shows 80 DPS, and he can't prove the 30% difference[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That trumps whatever point you are trying to prove.

I am not making an argument. I am only stating facts, as I have repeatedly stated to you.

What point do you think you have trumped?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can also choose to believe whatever you wish, but Everquest is a video game (computer program), and all of those are created on fixed math and rules. The DPS data I provided is accurate, and matches the predictive math I did earlier. It is also better evidence, as it is in-game videos with logs you can cross reference. It will still be accurate regardless of what you post here.
For the people interested in the real data:

It is a fact that your data was not collected in the correct environment nor while performing the correct activit(y/ies), you just did whatever you wanted to do instead and wish to present that evidence for comparison. Your evidence of root rotting 1-X mobs does not equate to the reality of being in a fast-paced, fast killing DPS group as a Shaman doing DPS, and this fact as well has been pointed out to you multiple times by multiple people in this thread. Are you arguing from bad faith?

You may continue to post as much as you wish, but the fact is that you have conceded to Troxx's challenge by refusing to participate.