OK so I made a Mage few months ago

[Abner]

I was in a group and some guy kept saying to the group that Rogues backstab best from the back. I was like what the heck does he keep going on about? I don't think we even had a Rogue.

The next day he had some giant post about people not playing their Mages right and blah blah etc etc. So I figure that whatever pet I was using was a Rogue equivalent. I don't recall now what it was.

So I guess instead of constant /pet attack and medding/nuking he wanted me to run my pet around to the back of the Mob every fight and send it in. I thought to myself well screw that if I am going to do that I'll just play a Rogue! And then I deleted my Mage.

Since then I have been watching how all the other Mages are playing. Every single one is doing what I did. Are they all crappy Mages? According to him I guess. Maybe I should just stay away from the Mage class cuz I don't wanna be a sucky one.

But part of me wants to say "up yours buddy I'll play how I want", make a new Mage and do my thing. As long as I don't get anyone killed or waste too much of the groups time. /shrug

I dunno. I am torn.

[Velerin]

Post 50 mage water pets backstab so have greatly increased dps when behind the mob. But one thing so many people don't seem to understand is all melee (including pets) always do more damage from behind the mob. Unless you need to push or something everyone (not just rogues) should be attacking from behind.
It's not always easy to position your pet however if the tank isn't helping matters. One way to make it easier is to guard the pet away from the group in the direction pulls come in so when you pet attack he naturally comes to the back of the mob.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Velerin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Post 50 mage water pets backstab so have greatly increased dps when behind the mob. But one thing so many people don't seem to understand is all melee (including pets) always do more damage from behind the mob. Unless you need to push or something everyone (not just rogues) should be attacking from behind.
It's not always easy to position your pet however if the tank isn't helping matters. One way to make it easier is to guard the pet away from the group in the direction pulls come in so when you pet attack he naturally comes to the back of the mob.

This right here, is wrong.

He is right in that back arc provides a marginal increase in DPS. He is wrong in that having everyone on the back is a good strategy.

The benefit of having back arc on monks, rangers, bards, and tanks, is marginal. So much so that you end up losing DPS having everyone on 1 side because inevitably that will push a mob out of range and cause a rogue to backstab and get a "this mob is too far away" message, etc.

Come Velious, when 80% of mobs are Tanked in a corner, you will have everyone in the back anyways. When a mob is cornered you want everyone in the back. When a mob isn't cornered you want tanks in the front rogues in the back and monks/bards can alternate... 2 monks front 2 back. Monks in the front Eogues in the back is another common strategy. Just anything that balances the mob.

[Velerin]

I was referring to a typical exp group with maybe 1-2 melee/pet dps and the monk/ranger/pet is hitting the mob in the front. There's no reason not to be behind the mob in that case.
Of course if there's some group with a tank, 4 monks/bards ("2 monks front 2 back"), and a rogue... yes then push can become a problem...

[Tuljin]

The real issue here is the fact that a good tank will always make sure that he parks mobs with their backs to the pets. Everyone knows pets are a pain in the ass to move in tight quarters and having the mobs perfectly turned for pets saves the pet classes a lot of hassle and significantly greases the wheels of the group. Its a good rule of thumb to get mage pets behind mobs if they're not tanking regardless of their type.

Sounds like this guy was barking at you without knowing how to solve the problem or trying to help you. Generally in a regular xp group everyone except tank should be behind the mob, push only becomes an issue when there's a ton of melees in group and its a Rodney King situation. Really its up to the tank to make sure hes turning mobs properly - EQ 101

[williestargell]

I agree that a good group tank should be turning / positioning the mob to face away from where your pet's "guard" location is. Blaming the pet hitting from the front on the pet owner is beyond stupid.

However, if you send your pet in too soon it really complicates the tank being able to position the mob because if he backs away the mob often times will not chase him. So position your pet consistenly between pulls and let it retrun there so that it comes in from the same direction consistently then the tank knows to turn the mob away from that direction, and wait til the mob is in decent position before sending the pet in.

Also to add to Daldaen's comments. Directly behind is never necessary to backstab either. To the side and 1% back is good enough.

[Kytross]

Being behind a mob doesn't increase your damage, it decreases or eliminates the mob's capacity to mitigate damage with skills, specifically dodge, parry and block. Is block in this game? It's been over a decade since I did metrics. When possible all melee should be behind the mob, so when I tanked, I aggroed the mob, turned it so it faces away from the group, and had a macro up telling people when to attack. I was normally down to 3/4 health before I called for people to attack, but I never lost aggro. Casters loved me. I'd tell them to med and single pull trash and low cons for the melee to grind through. When they got to 80% mana i'd start bringing in reds and oranges. We'd do 4-5 reds and oranges, 2-3 blues to yellows while they medded up, rinse lather and repeat.

This was for levelling/cash groups. Raids are different.

I guess my point is that it is the tanks job to turn the mob, not our job to get the pet behind it.

I'm sorry you deleted the mage. Never let another player ruin your fun. If someone says you're playing wrong, look into it, see if there's room for improvement. Often the other player is the idiot, in my experience. Sometimes it was me. When it starts feeling more like a job then a game its time to log off and go for a bike ride.

[Arterian]

Anyone think this post is a total troll?

[Abner]

Why on earth (or Norrath) would you think that?

[Abner]

Bte I remade him and just got my first pet.