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  #81  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:08 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Nycon43 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I mean in your own guide you break down pre-torpor/torpor/raid exclusive sections and each #1 race is different.
Yes, I have the other sections for completions sake. The majority of players who create a character do so with the assumption that they will complete the character one day, even if they never do. Due to Everquests length, it is not easy to create multiple level 50+ characters for very specific purposes. There are definitely people that do this, but that usually requires the player to be experienced and dedicated already. This guide is probably not too much use for those kinds of players anyway.

The Post-Torpor sections are for the majority of players, who want to know what their character will look like in the end. This allows them to make the best possible decision when creating their new character, since that decision will affect their character after months or years of play.

Creating a Shaman who will never reach level 60, or exclusively raids, is for a minority of players.
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  #82  
Old 09-27-2020, 08:46 PM
Noselacri Noselacri is offline
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I think it's silly to base anything on the presumption of "full BiS gear."
  #83  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:33 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I think it's silly to base anything on the presumption of "full BiS gear."
It is not silly at all[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] By seeing what your character will look like in the end game, you can easily determine if they are lacking something you want. If they are lacking something you want, you can check to see if that can be fixed via a different distribution of starting stats, picking a different race to get their racial bonuses/items, changing your diety, etc.

Everquest is a long game, and many characters take years to complete. Doing a bit of planning in the beginning will save you a lot of grief later, if you care about maximizing your character.
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  #84  
Old 09-29-2020, 10:22 AM
Noselacri Noselacri is offline
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We're talking about a server where only a tiny minority of players even get to raid at all, let alone obtain full Velious BiS. It just doesn't seem like something that ought to be featured that prominently in a discussion of the merits of each race. With NToV/ST gear in every slot, of course base stats don't matter in the slightest because you'll have 255 in all of the ones you care about. But that's relevant to almost nobody. You cannot profess to rate races on their stats when the foundation of your argument is "when you have the best item in the game in every equipment slot," under which circumstances all races max all of their relevant stats.
  #85  
Old 09-29-2020, 10:52 AM
Bardp1999 Bardp1999 is offline
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Non-Barbarian shamans look like dog ass and are inferior to Barbarian shamans
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  #86  
Old 09-29-2020, 11:22 AM
Noselacri Noselacri is offline
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If your dog's ass looks like an ogre, you need to call a veterinarian.
  #87  
Old 09-29-2020, 12:04 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
We're talking about a server where only a tiny minority of players even get to raid at all, let alone obtain full Velious BiS. It just doesn't seem like something that ought to be featured that prominently in a discussion of the merits of each race. With NToV/ST gear in every slot, of course base stats don't matter in the slightest because you'll have 255 in all of the ones you care about. But that's relevant to almost nobody. You cannot profess to rate races on their stats when the foundation of your argument is "when you have the best item in the game in every equipment slot," under which circumstances all races max all of their relevant stats.
You are misunderstanding what I am doing. The idea is very simple, and you do this exercise in many games besides Everquest. The point of the exercise is not to assume you will get BiS gear. Character creation is the one thing you cannot ever change on this server, and some people want to make sure they make the best choices possible.

The reason why you look at your character with BiS gear is to determine if any race/class combination is missing stat points, even after getting all BiS gear. This knowledge is useful for people who want to minimize stat waste. Stat waste happens when your stat gets capped at 255. All stat points above that are useless. If you can figure out which stat doesn't get maxed even with BiS gear, you can choose to put points into that stat in the beginning to minimize waste.

If the conclusion is all races of that class can max out their stat points anyway, then you can instead focus on which racial bonuses, racial items, and diety items work best for your playstyle. In the case of a Shaman, you can easily max all of your stats, including wisdom. Therefore, your race/class combination should mostly be determined by which racial bonuses, racial items, and diety items you want to play with.

If you read my guide, you will see all of this covered[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EDIT: Your assumption that BiS gear maxes all race/class combinations is not correct. https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:EruditeSKMan If you look at this fake SK I made with BiS gear, you will see that his INT is still not maxed, even as an Erudite with BiS gear. This is because Velious BiS gear for tanks has less focus on WIS/INT, and a lot more focus on STR/STA. This means if you want to minimize stat waste on an SK, you should dump points into INT. This is especially true since INT/WIS buffs give less stat points than the melee stat buffs.
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  #88  
Old 09-29-2020, 01:59 PM
Philistine Philistine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Hello everyone!

I have finished constructing a more complete breakdown of the racial benefits of each Shaman race, which can be found here:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide

I still plan on updating it and refining it, but this first pass is basically complete. Let me know what you think. I am hoping this can act as a more definitive guide for new Shamans when selecting their race, so they do not need to navigate the many "Which Shaman race is best" threads that have come before.
I'm definitely going to stay out of the Shaman race melee, but wanted to say thank you for putting this together! Whether or not I agree or disagree or anyone else agrees or disagrees with the conclusions reached, you clearly put a lot of time, effort, and thought into this and provide a ton of information to anyone interested in the topic. Thank you!
  #89  
Old 09-29-2020, 04:41 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philistine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm definitely going to stay out of the Shaman race melee, but wanted to say thank you for putting this together! Whether or not I agree or disagree or anyone else agrees or disagrees with the conclusions reached, you clearly put a lot of time, effort, and thought into this and provide a ton of information to anyone interested in the topic. Thank you!
Thank you for that![You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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  #90  
Old 11-22-2020, 01:32 PM
CheopisIV CheopisIV is offline
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I love the toxic narcissism people playing this game exhibit not only in game but on the boards and presumably in life. I'm right, you're wrong so F-Off. It's absolutely useless as anything but entertainment but I do like being entertained so carry on (like you people would ever stop...).

I for one as a "never-before-and-now-practicing" Shaman appreciate the opinions and evidence outlined in the article. I'm always interested to see how people play their characters. Vids are great and I'm a bit of math/stats junky so it's all good.

Min/Max be damned, I can't stand the ogre model so I went Troll and love every minute of my play except the stuns while tanking, but I love my regen after taking some hits. Better or worse, it's all irrelevant and boils down to preference.

Thank you for putting up the guide.
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