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  #251  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:37 PM
Twochain Twochain is offline
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Originally Posted by zaldaben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
p99 wasnt recreated so one guild can dominate a server. It was created so people can enjoy the experience of the original content. 2nd many servers had guilds that came to agreements to rotate content and took turns raiding the planes etc. to pretend like only the most populous guild on the server has the right to enjoy the end game content is dumb. when one guild creates an environment where 75 percent of the people playing are shat on goes directly against why p99 was created.
P99 was created with classic EQ in mind. VP was created for hardcore players.

Every guild has an equal “right” to mobs. If your guild is struggling, form alliances. Everyone IS free to enjoy the end game content. You shouldn’t force the GMs to give your guild a turn because a server with thousands of players can’t pool together and beat one guild.
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  #252  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:44 PM
Twochain Twochain is offline
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IMO the best thing for the community would be to keep the server as competitive as possible, and require Seal Team to stream their raids. I think hundreds of people would watch this, which would expose our project to new players, and keep our game thriving. It also would level the playing field with knowledge.

If you don’t want to raid hardcore, don’t. There are other servers around.

Raiding classic EQ was supposed to be hard. Now that we have a wiki of what to do for each encounter, it becomes trivial without the possibility of someone else taking it.
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  #253  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:53 PM
Fammaden Fammaden is offline
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Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
P99 was created with classic EQ in mind. VP was created for hardcore players.

Every guild has an equal “right” to mobs. If your guild is struggling, form alliances. Everyone IS free to enjoy the end game content. You shouldn’t force the GMs to give your guild a turn because a server with thousands of players can’t pool together and beat one guild.
I don't think these guilds mind the losing part, or for the most part even mind that they aren't in VP. When they lose outright they chalk it up to inexperience, mistakes, being out manned and out strategized. They give ST their due in that regard.

What they can't stomach, and many didn't expect coming into P99 for green, is that they not only lose most of the time but are never allowed to win either. In P99's raid meta, the dominant guild has a real knack for never accepting defeat even when its handed to them as clear as day when the little guy prevailed for a change. Its always straight to the lawyerquest, fishing for concessions to block the competition out of future attempts.

You know this damn well with your experience. How many times have you been involved in a situation like "we can't contest this mob at this time of day, but we can go pressure Riot with our tiny force and try to make them screw up and give us something to petition"? That's the overriding meta that raid guilds here operate under.

On blue you have two and three entities at a time who are fluent in this back and forth and have played it against each other for years. These green guilds however, they came in and found out that even when David beats Goliath a win is never ever allowed to stand on its merits.

Competitive people pat the opponent on the back and say good game see you next time. Bullies do everything they can to beat your morale down and try to intimidate you to never try again.

So when you see these green dudes saying these things, its not that they hate ST for spending more time or having more people or working harder at being on top. They hate all the effort that goes into rigging the game when they do take a loss. And they weren't prepared to see this coming from outside of the blue raid scene as so many on green have.
  #254  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:53 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
IMO the best thing for the community would be to keep the server as competitive as possible, and require Seal Team to stream their raids. I think hundreds of people would watch this, which would expose our project to new players, and keep our game thriving. It also would level the playing field with knowledge.

If you don’t want to raid hardcore, don’t. There are other servers around.

Raiding classic EQ was supposed to be hard. Now that we have a wiki of what to do for each encounter, it becomes trivial without the possibility of someone else taking it.
The game would just immediately lose those new players as they realized that they got nothing after they lost the “race” to the raid boss. That’s why EQ competition actually sucks, compared to most other successful competitive games. In order to have a successful competitive environment, the losing party needs to at least make some progress. You may not be the first guild to kill Kel’thuzad on classic WoW, but at least when you do, you still get some loot. You might not be a challenger rank in League of Legends, but at least there are some end of season rewards for Diamond, Platinum, etc

I’m not nor ever will be of the mentality that “everyone should get a trophy”, but when your version of competition is a complete zero sum game that leaves 95% of the playerbase with nothing and zero progress, it will never be successful. It will suck for everyone that didn’t get some form of progress, which will make them quit, which will lead to a dead server. Personally to me it looks like it’s the early game and re-rolling/twinking new chars that is keeping P99 alive, not the end game. The end game is what pushes people away
  #255  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:00 AM
Twochain Twochain is offline
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Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Nothing about your competitive meta is intrinsic to Everquest. Its all things that P99 has shoehorned into place in order to address player behaviors and try to reduce guilds butting heads at raids, not induce more conflict.

FTE messages, lockouts, 16 hour variance windows, the entire rulebook and petitionquest meta surrounding the raid scene..... Those are the aspects that your crew has learned to run game around, and to be fair you've done a superior job in dominating that mini game. But none of it was put in place as a means to an end for game design reasons, it evolved because of the player behaviors that they didn't want to leave unchecked.

And if the owners of the box are sick of it they have every right and reason to force it to end or change. Rotations are very very classic, many servers used them, enforcing them would not be an affront to EQ's legacy whatsoever. Neither would doing hard resets (quakes) more often, as all the servers were frequently brought down for maintenance resulting in repops that both the top hardcore and lowest casual units could feast upon.
Quakes yes. I doubt the GMs want to quake the server for us right now.

Full rotations?

Idk man. EverQuest is either casual or it’s not. I haven’t seen very many examples of in era end game raid mobs being rotated. If your hard core enough to get to level 60 in kunark, your hard core enough to form an alliance with other guilds. Networking is one of the fun parts of the game.
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  #256  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:01 AM
Vizax_Xaziv Vizax_Xaziv is offline
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Originally Posted by getsome [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The only one I can remember first hand who woke sleeper on both servers is sussy. https://twitch.tv/sussypoo

The eqmac sleeper was awakened by less than 10 people boxxing a few accounts. I think my wizard was used for it. I was invited, but was busy that day. It was done a few months after the guild we were in stopped raiding on that server.
How fucking childish can you be. You guys were done with the server so you decided to ruin it for everyone else? REALLY exemplifies the mentality of entitlement that some people have.

Just wow
Last edited by Vizax_Xaziv; 02-10-2021 at 12:06 AM..
  #257  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:02 AM
Scalem Scalem is offline
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Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Right. There was no competition. There was one guild, and then the rest. Vp on live (and I’d really love to hear input from somebody who did it in era on live) was probably dominated by one guild on 90% of the servers. I guanrintee you a ST raid is a lot more cooperative than in era raiding guilds.
The first guild in the world to clear Vp did it just prior to Velious launch. VP was cleared as soon as ST had enough people keyed and then it was done in less then a day. Yea there usually was only one guild that dominated the raiding scene on most servers because back then there was usually only one or two guilds that actually “competes” for raids. I remember plenty of times back then where dragons would sit up for days. Very few if any guilds sat at their PCs all day poop socking or woke up in the middle of the night to Zerg down a boss in 30 seconds.
  #258  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:13 AM
Twochain Twochain is offline
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Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The game would just immediately lose those new players as they realized that they got nothing after they lost the “race” to the raid boss. That’s why EQ competition actually sucks, compared to most other successful competitive games. In order to have a successful competitive environment, the losing party needs to at least make some progress. You may not be the first guild to kill Kel’thuzad on classic WoW, but at least when you do, you still get some loot. You might not be a challenger rank in League of Legends, but at least there are some end of season rewards for Diamond, Platinum, etc

I’m not nor ever will be of the mentality that “everyone should get a trophy”, but when your version of competition is a complete zero sum game that leaves 95% of the playerbase with nothing and zero progress, it will never be successful. It will suck for everyone that didn’t get some form of progress, which will make them quit, which will lead to a dead server. Personally to me it looks like it’s the early game and re-rolling/twinking new chars that is keeping P99 alive, not the end game. The end game is what pushes people away
A lot of people have the wrong idea of raiding. I thought the same thing before I joined a big raiding guild. The common explanation is that you have to play 3 million hours a week to get gear. It’s not true. If you have enough players in your group, you can come and go as you please.

Classic was much more about exploring the world and making friends. It’s not a classic problem to have as many max level toons as fast as there are here.

It’s only a zero sum game because people cry about seal team winning instead of banding together and beating the other guys. I mean is every raider on the server in Seal Team?

Progression? The best items in kunark drop off of myconid spore king. That can be trio’d
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  #259  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:18 AM
Fammaden Fammaden is offline
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Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It’s only a zero sum game because people cry about seal team winning instead of banding together and beating the other guys. I mean is every raider on the server in Seal Team?
Again, because it was stuck on the last post of the previous page:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I don't think these guilds mind the losing part, or for the most part even mind that they aren't in VP. When they lose outright they chalk it up to inexperience, mistakes, being out manned and out strategized. They give ST their due in that regard.

What they can't stomach, and many didn't expect coming into P99 for green, is that they not only lose most of the time but are never allowed to win either. In P99's raid meta, the dominant guild has a real knack for never accepting defeat even when its handed to them as clear as day when the little guy prevailed for a change. Its always straight to the lawyerquest, fishing for concessions to block the competition out of future attempts.

You know this damn well with your experience. How many times have you been involved in a situation like "we can't contest this mob at this time of day, but we can go pressure Riot with our tiny force and try to make them screw up and give us something to petition"? That's the overriding meta that raid guilds here operate under.

On blue you have two and three entities at a time who are fluent in this back and forth and have played it against each other for years. These green guilds however, they came in and found out that even when David beats Goliath a win is never ever allowed to stand on its merits.

Competitive people pat the opponent on the back and say good game see you next time. Bullies do everything they can to beat your morale down and try to intimidate you to never try again.

So when you see these green dudes saying these things, its not that they hate ST for spending more time or having more people or working harder at being on top. They hate all the effort that goes into rigging the game when they do take a loss. And they weren't prepared to see this coming from outside of the blue raid scene as so many on green have.
Its not just about losing or being at a disadvantage. And its disingenuous of you to suggest that this is all that's at play in the raid meta here.
  #260  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:20 AM
getsome getsome is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
How fucking childish can you be. You guys were done with the server so you decided to ruin it for everyone else? REALLY exemplifies the mentality of entitlement that some people have.

Just wow
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