Stop the Socking

[Whirled]

So, what you're saying is..... the early turd gets the sock?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Korben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, get ready to scream NOT CLASSIC, but the windows we have are totally not classic but... what if mobs like VS, Trak, even Sev perhaps, were just random on their respawn? They could respawn an hour later, 5 hours later, 4 days later.... with an upper limit on how long it could go between spawns? Extrapolate that across the number of possible targets available, maybe there's something to it?

I'm ready to duck the pitchforks.

Worst idea yet.

That is a variance of a week. No one wants that. People hated 96 hour variance, 168 hours would be even more retarded.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Korben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 needs black and white rules else people will habitually line step if there's any gray area.

P99 needs fewer rules. The more rules you've created the less creativity there is for overcoming 'competition' and more creativity in rule lawyering the grey area.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to rain on your parade but you're asking the hardcore raiders to fundamentally change the way they raid, and to completely change the culture of high end raiding that's been prevalent since the genesis of p99.

It's always an arms race and the fuel for this has always been the staff/devs who have plainly stated that they want to see competition. It's hard to have that platform and expect anything different from the playerbase. I don't personally subscribe to that playstyle but if you give a player the leeway he's going to do anything he can to maximize his pixel intake.

The alternative to this is the current class R rotation. We've successfully adopted a culture that's a complete 180 from how raiding on this server typically has been. Remove the FFA component, let class C gouge each other's eyes out if they want, and let the rest of the server rotate content so everyone can experience high end Everquest raiding.

FFA isn't going away, unlike that ct you lost. Also before this stupid camp at ent and coth Mage shit. FE and TMO would just have 1 tracker. Then fastest to log in won. Was a lot less work. A lot more doable by guilds like most class r. I say we get rid of most the rules. The only rules we need is no long da stall, honor FTE and no kiting.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Ando [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe, but by increasing Variance they can make poopsocking a whole lot more painful which hopefully dissuades some people from doing it.

Which isn't the case. The old system was 7 days +/- 48 hours, so nearly 200 hours in a window and the hardcore guilds would still track around the clock. At one point the windows weren't finite, if you got down to the last 10% of a window there was a chance it would extend for another 24 hours or whatver (I forgot the exact details but the window could go on in perpetuity, it was bad lol) Guilds even organized full on socks where they'd sit in VS's room for days or in Inny's lair constantly clearing and waiting.

The point I'm trying to make is that going back to the old variance only punishes the casual raiding guilds.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly wish it were as easy as you want it to be, but consider some of these points.

-players camped in zone to avoid the footrace from the other zoneline, how is that policed?

-players bound in zone to avoid the footrace, how is that policed?

Each new wrinkle you add only complicates the amount of fraps/logs that must be kept to keep everyone playing nicely. The new rules themselves only moved the sock to the zoneline, it didn't change how people are actually playing the game.

Aren't those two things currently prevented? You may not bind in zone and gate to Naggy or Vox anymore and you can't camp on or near the raid spawn so everyone camps at the zone in.

I'm sure there are new wrinkles. But they seem keen on stopping poopsocking sooner rather than later. And they don't appear to want to remove raid windows entirely and replace them with weekly simulated respawns... So limiting to 2 in zone as opposed to 2 at target and allowing for some banhammering if people attempt to skirt the rules by chilling at zone lines, would make for a better environment.

One that may be agreeable by all parties. Where as your complete rotation idea is obviously utopian and Class C will never concede to it.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 needs fewer rules. The more rules you've created the less creativity there is for overcoming 'competition' and more creativity in rule lawyering the grey area.

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA isn't going away, unlike that ct you lost. Also before this stupid camp at ent and coth Mage shit. FE and TMO would just have 1 tracker. Then fastest to log in won. Was a lot less work. A lot more doable by guilds like most class r. I say we get rid of most the rules. The only rules we need is no long da stall, honor FTE and no kiting.

And there you have it, hardcore raiders advocating zero regulation so we can go back to the days of 1-2 guilds steamrolling all the content.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aren't those two things currently prevented? You may not bind in zone and gate to Naggy or Vox anymore and you can't camp on or near the raid spawn so everyone camps at the zone in.

I'm sure there are new wrinkles. But they seem keen on stopping poopsocking sooner rather than later. And they don't appear to want to remove raid windows entirely and replace them with weekly simulated respawns... So limiting to 2 in zone as opposed to 2 at target and allowing for some banhammering if people attempt to skirt the rules by chilling at zone lines, would make for a better environment.

One that may be agreeable by all parties. Where as your complete rotation idea is obviously utopian and Class C will never concede to it.

You're right, those two things are currently disallowed, and by having two coth mages you usually see exactly who's cothed in, you see a spell message, you see the soandso mystical portal crap. However, without those coth mages you don't know where the FTE person came from and you'd need ways to police those things.

[Ele]

What is the staffs' definition of socking?

Having one person track?
Having two people track?
Having a pre-buffed/camped raid force outside the zone?
Having a pre-buffed/camped raid force inside the zone?
Mage tracking ducking CotH?
Having the raid or initial engage group logged in?

Socking is a symptom of people not having anything constructive to do with their main characters. People could level a 5th or 6th alternate at this point, but what do they end up doing with that character? Buffing it and parking it in a zone while a boss is in window. Creating yet more socking and instant engages.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Worst idea yet.

That is a variance of a week. No one wants that. People hated 96 hour variance, 168 hours would be even more retarded.

Not to mention that 96 hour variance (with extended windows) did not dissuade all people from socking spawns.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And there you have it, hardcore raiders advocating zero regulation so we can go back to the days of 1-2 guilds steamrolling all the content.

You're more than wrong. Keep those blinders on.