Petition to Rogean: TMO Raid Behavior

[arsenalpow]

According to server policy and server raid rules, the Play Nice Policy is in effect. We can request the staff to work it out if we want, but in the end the Play Nice Policy is in effect as instructed by Rogean and as enforced by his staff.

Under the Server Wide Play Nice Policy, it states:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=132299

8. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.
-Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).(Underlined emphasis is mine)

Additionally, under the Raid Play Nice Policy it states:

"Intentional training will be severely disciplined"

Here is a crystal clear fraps of the situation BDA is currently bringing to the table. BDA was in the Plane of Fear (a raid zone) and was killing mobs that a force of TMO wanted, a force that included the co-leader of TMO Unbrella. Skip forward to 4 minutes and keep an eye on Dinacarl. He’s the TMO monk on the right side of the screen in the BDA camp. At the end of the fraps you can clearly see Unbrella saying in ooc that this will make for good RnF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1CRVZBZuo4

Also listed is: "Guilds are encouraged to work out disputes among themselves before involving the staff."

This was attempted by trying to talk to first Unbrella and then Mazam. Unbrella’s initial offer to BDA was to have Dinacarl pull a fear raid for us. My rebuttal was to have TMO take two months off from raiding. Both offers were equally ridiculous, but in the end BDA offered a fair resolution of a two week full raid suspension for TMO which has been the usual amount of raid interference. Mazam and Unbrella both feel that no guild suspension is warranted and that Dinacarl acted of his own volition. BDA disagrees based on the fact that the Co-Leader of TMO was present and proceeded to mock BDA instantly after the train hit and made no effort to resolve the issue. Cucumbers had to reach out personally and engage Unbrella as he made no effort to correct the “accidental” train (his words.)

The Unbrella conversation:
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TMO had 5 players and Genocidal Tendencies had another 18, combined they did not have the proper class makeup or levels to AE the zone. There was no misunderstanding and the act as you can see by fraps was quite deliberate. Also, being misrepresented was TMO saying they were clearing the zone ahead of us. Some TMO, BDA, and GT were all mustering in Feerott, GT and TMO ran in and BDA followed seconds later. TMO/GT broke on top of the Fear portal and BDA moved to the north wall. There are additional ventrilo conversations with Unbrella but I see no need to post those as the screenshots should be sufficient.

The initial petition was posted on Monday night and responded to by Sirken on Tuesday. To quote Sirken “I got as far as Chest saying two months. Try to work it out like reasonable human beings.”

We have gone through the petition forum and that petition has been marked resolved. We have attempted to work it out like reasonable human beings with Unbrella/Mazam, and have not been successful. We are only asking for TMO to be punished for a blatant and clear violation of the server and raid rules. We want the staff to follow the rules they have posted and deal with the situation.

[quido]

Usually people put petitions in the petition forum.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Usually people put petitions in the petition forum.

The petition was already marked resolved and Rogean doesn't usually read the petition forum. Thank you for the tip though Jeremy.

[quido]

Did you try addressing it to Rogean in the subject?

[Ella`Ella]

8. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

Why was BDA in violation of the server Play-nice-Policy by occupying Plane of Fear while it was currently being raided by Genocidal Tendencies?

[bktroost]

I'm posting on behalf of Waryah, Leader of Genocidal Tendencies:

"@ Chest: GT was just there for our first PoF raid and had no intentions of doing AOE groups (never mentioned to us, and actually had no idea you could do that in PoF). We were just there to pull mobs one by one like newbs and have a fun time. "

[lilyanna]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

8. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

Why was BDA in violation of the server Play-nice-Policy by occupying Plane of Fear while it was currently being raided by Genocidal Tendencies?

As I am sure you are well aware by now Unbrella, and I can categorically state having played on this server for a long time now, there have been many occasions where more than one guild has occupied Fear at a time. Are you trying to use this as a basis to suggest that the clear and blatant training (as evidenced by the fraps) is warranted by your TMO monk or are you trying to detract from the main issue in question?

[Pint]

Wow @ that fraps, no ruling was made after server staff watched that?

[Splorf22]

That has to be one of the most blatant trains ever recorded on fraps.

I wish I didn't have to watch 5 minutes of Sesserdrix alternately memorizing his AEs and Twitches though.

[Ella`Ella]

We saw the fraps and agree that the behavior here was unacceptable. Where our understanding of the situation begins to diverge is over whether this was a raid-related scenario or not. This situation mirrors if someone were to disrupt a Chardok AoE pull. If this is a raid zone because of raid targets spawning, then Dreadlands, Skyfire, Karnor's Castle, Timorous Deep, SolB, Permafrost, Sebilis, Plane of Hate and Plane of Sky (which a raid suspended guild recently killed 3 raid targets in) should all be considered raid zones and any training warrant guild suspensions.

This issue is between a single player of the community and another group of players. The player has been removed from TMO for his actions and the guild has dealt with it internally. Leadership is involved to the extent of coming to a reasonable resolution on how to punish the player. Despite the presence of leadership, you cannot A) assume that a directive was given for this player to act in this manner and B) as any guild knows, you cannot always account for the unpredictable behavior of all members at all times, whether you are present or not.

BDA was offered to have the offending member pull hate and fear for a week for them, which would have been both embarrassing and punishment enough for Dinacarl - BDA rejected that proposal. TMO further extends the offer to voluntarily suspend themselves from Plane of Fear clears (with the exception of Draco and CT, as these mobs weren't even in window during this incident).

Also, there is a mutual fault here that precedes the matter with BDA entering a plane that is currently occupied and laying claim (monopolizing) the entire zone. This continued even after the leader of BDA, Chest, was informed that all we were after were monkey's and fetids to which he dismissed our request and proceeded to AoE those targets along with the rest of the zone. I do not support the motion that one foul deed deserves another, but I do think that appropriate weight be given to this matter as well; not for the sake of retribution, as we really have/had no intention of pursuing that as a matter, but if for any reason to make situations like this fewer and further between.