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Old 10-29-2014, 07:38 PM
bktroost bktroost is offline
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Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
man.. in what way is taking 1/3 of the pie and splitting it between the 2 classes not going to result in asgard getting more free mobs. R mobs are free mobs man, we dont have to pretend otherwise just bc this is a public forum.

i totally agree that 3 months of mage tracking didnt erase 3 years of cockblocking and ill will towards tmo, but i will say that my personal opinions regarding each of the established guilds on this server pre raid change have changed. the finger consistently got pointed at tmo for a reason, it is also consistently being pointed at taken for a reason.

ive definitely officially done my part in making myself look bad today so i will step away unless this thread starts to bear fruit.
So are you representing your entire guild's stance on the ffa situation? Or are you posting your personal opinion? If your guild is opposed to FFA repops then there is no point in attempting to confer and ratify.
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  #62  
Old 10-29-2014, 09:44 PM
Pint Pint is offline
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No we are not opposed to ffa repops, gms seem to be though.
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  #63  
Old 11-03-2014, 12:50 AM
Komodon Komodon is offline
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Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
We just want the current variance to be able to stay based on your guys' own agreement to stop socking - an agreement everyone made with this system in place and this system alone - there were no stipulations of - well, we will stop the sock if xyz happens to abc.....
The general problem with this line of thought Deru is that it more or less ignores the fact that it's the variance issue at the root of the poopsocking to begin with. Which if anything, just offers evidence that the real "fail" in everything you stated was that we didn't think to reduce it enough.

While it may appear that way due to an increased presence, Class R guilds are not poopsocking "more" directly because variance was reduced. They do it because unlike the "business as usual" approach of IB/TMO, the overall commit level that goes into 16 hour windows for them is still viewed as a much larger investment that takes a harder toll on their guilds (especially when they lose). Which in turn just ends up tugging at that always overly tempting (and in most cases, inexperienced) appeal to do anything they believe will absolutely best min/max their chances if/when they do decide to invest that effort. With some Class R guilds (Taken) better equipped and more willing to fight that type of battle then others (Asgard).

Class C on the other hand has mostly abandoned large scale poopsocks, due to the fact that the evolved FTE game has made most of them fairly pointless. I mean outside being on the team in game and going out to get FTE, the only real difference between the one guy who can make the raid to begin with by getting to his pc within 1-2 minutes (longer in more cases), and the other guy sitting in game at the zoneline, is one doesn't need to refresh their buffs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. VS being the only target under normal circumstances that really tempts us to cheat the poopsock count up these days, but even that's mostly negated by the knowledge that the tank running in has a few minutes worth of OP heal stall clickies to buy everybody the run down time we otherwise wouldn't have without them (this in turn only factors in because he still can't be pulled out of his room).

Which again, isn't to say that we don't create our own eye rolling moments for everybody else (and probably you guys) though mind you. Such as buff teams, some of the large scale races to spawn in VP, or seeing the FTE'er count balloon up outside VP when people are awake/bored and nothing else needing tracked happens to be in window.

Of course if you really had that much an issue with any/all of the above, you could pretty much wipe it all away in one stroke by logically taking the same straightforward approach you took combating autofire, and simply extend the 2 tracker/no FTE rule to include a cap on how many people a guild is allowed to have in zone on mob spawn. Pushing most if not all poopsocking as far back as we can ever realistically hope to accomplish (out of game), and presenting the question why we would then need more then a bare minimum amount of variance to begin with.

It's not the fantasy "somebody just randomly checked and Talendor was up in SF. Quick everybody, mobilize from your random exp/cash camps spread out around the world and get to SF!!!!" scenario some seem to pine for, and the hate rules because they are rules crowd might not like it....but at least it would be an overall step forward i'm guessing most would end up agreeing with.
Last edited by Komodon; 11-03-2014 at 01:02 AM..
  #64  
Old 11-03-2014, 07:47 AM
Sirken Sirken is offline
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Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The general problem with this line of thought Deru is that it more or less ignores the fact that it's the variance issue at the root of the poopsocking to begin with. Which if anything, just offers evidence that the real "fail" in everything you stated was that we didn't think to reduce it enough.

While it may appear that way due to an increased presence, Class R guilds are not poopsocking "more" directly because variance was reduced. They do it because unlike the "business as usual" approach of IB/TMO, the overall commit level that goes into 16 hour windows for them is still viewed as a much larger investment that takes a harder toll on their guilds (especially when they lose). Which in turn just ends up tugging at that always overly tempting (and in most cases, inexperienced) appeal to do anything they believe will absolutely best min/max their chances if/when they do decide to invest that effort. With some Class R guilds (Taken) better equipped and more willing to fight that type of battle then others (Asgard).

Class C on the other hand has mostly abandoned large scale poopsocks, due to the fact that the evolved FTE game has made most of them fairly pointless. I mean outside being on the team in game and going out to get FTE, the only real difference between the one guy who can make the raid to begin with by getting to his pc within 1-2 minutes (longer in more cases), and the other guy sitting in game at the zoneline, is one doesn't need to refresh their buffs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. VS being the only target under normal circumstances that really tempts us to cheat the poopsock count up these days, but even that's mostly negated by the knowledge that the tank running in has a few minutes worth of OP heal stall clickies to buy everybody the run down time we otherwise wouldn't have without them (this in turn only factors in because he still can't be pulled out of his room).

Which again, isn't to say that we don't create our own eye rolling moments for everybody else (and probably you guys) though mind you. Such as buff teams, some of the large scale races to spawn in VP, or seeing the FTE'er count balloon up outside VP when people are awake/bored and nothing else needing tracked happens to be in window.

Of course if you really had that much an issue with any/all of the above, you could pretty much wipe it all away in one stroke by logically taking the same straightforward approach you took combating autofire, and simply extend the 2 tracker/no FTE rule to include a cap on how many people a guild is allowed to have in zone on mob spawn. Pushing most if not all poopsocking as far back as we can ever realistically hope to accomplish (out of game), and presenting the question why we would then need more then a bare minimum amount of variance to begin with.

It's not the fantasy "somebody just randomly checked and Talendor was up in SF. Quick everybody, mobilize from your random exp/cash camps spread out around the world and get to SF!!!!" scenario some seem to pine for, and the hate rules because they are rules crowd might not like it....but at least it would be an overall step forward i'm guessing most would end up agreeing with.
and your entire wall of text ignores the fact that deru pointed out, you guys already agreed to end the socking if we shortened variance. we shortened variance, you guys kept on socking.

why on earth would we do any thing but restore the full variance until you guys hold up to what was originally agreed upon? instead of just following the spirit and intentions of the rules (which all the guild leaders were aware of), you guys try to get as close to the line as possible without actually breaking the technical wording of the rule.
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