New Tracker Rule

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not necessarily true. If Class C ran in to get the kite for draco how do you determine who has the kite on the firewall? There are generally multiple kites going. One answer is to try and bind sight from original trackers, but that requires that you have the person on the bell tower (stationary) click the kiter and get the bind sight on a mob following closely to him and that's still sketchy.

If you just have someone watching from the field you can tell your guild's bards who it is and they can track that player to bracer them.

And again, he did not have any real effect in this particular outcome anyway, because draco was a mess.

The effect it had on the encounter is irrelevant, an infraction is an infraction. BDA got to sit out on a class R Sev where a botched pull was considered an infraction and had no bearing on the outcome of the encounter. The new ability of being to switch out two crappy trackers for two raid ready fully buffed characters at a location convenient for an engage is pretty fucking major. Plus it's a nightmare to police. What's to stop having two groups camped at nwall that login part ways through the zone in, I don't want to police that and nor should the staff.

You shouldn't be able to park characters at the nwall for all the listed reasons.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new ability of being to switch out two crappy trackers for two raid ready fully buffed characters at a location convenient for an engage is pretty fucking major. .

Is anyone else not seeing where in this scenario this happened or why it would be inferred that if trackers who are visually tracking the zone can be in zone then I guess that means raid ready toons can also be there? Looks a lot like youre stretching this one pretty far Chest.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The effect it had on the encounter is irrelevant, an infraction is an infraction. BDA got to sit out on a class R Sev where a botched pull was considered an infraction and had no bearing on the outcome of the encounter. The new ability of being to switch out two crappy trackers for two raid ready fully buffed characters at a location convenient for an engage is pretty fucking major. Plus it's a nightmare to police. What's to stop having two groups camped at nwall that login part ways through the zone in, I don't want to police that and nor should the staff.

You shouldn't be able to park characters at the nwall for all the listed reasons.

The thing to stop them is that they can only have 2 of those characters in zone at one time... for the purpose of tracking.

It's probably a good thing that we did not loose our nerve on this tactic when you sent some tells though. I have logs of you stating that you had fraps of nuffwin eating a DT upon log in, something you said specifically.

according to the rule: "Note on Crying Wolf – if you request that another guild concede a mob, you better be 100% certain that they made an error, because if you make another guild concede/forfeit a mob under false pretenses you will be punished harshly" found here, there would have been a suspension from BDA for saying:

[Sun May 03 14:42:54 2015] Chest -> Cloki: we have nuffwin logging in at nwall and taking DT immediately, DQing your kill.


Which of course, is not true and would, in fact, be a clear violation of the raid policy.

I'm not a fan of open discussion like this, seems too ineffectual. If there is anything that you and I can work out on specifics or even precedent, please send me a pm and we can do it that way. We could even post our refined thoughts here for the world to see, but this feels a bit like dirty laundry.

[arsenalpow]

I was incorrect about the DT (it was falsely reported to me) but he was definitely at the nwall as admitted by you. This isn't dirty laundry, this is a legitimate concern. Can we start having "tracking" clerics to swap to on poop mountain when the mages jobs are done? Can we have "tracking" monks double invised at Inny's room ready to login and assist with the pull?

There's an unofficial agreement on where trackers are parked, everyone who raids knows these locations. Nwall in Fear isn't one of them. This isn't a stretch, it's a can of worms.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was incorrect about the DT (it was falsely reported to me) but he was definitely at the nwall as admitted by you. This isn't dirty laundry, this is a legitimate concern. Can we start having "tracking" clerics to swap to on poop mountain when the mages jobs are done? Can we have "tracking" monks double invised at Inny's room ready to login and assist with the pull?

There's an unofficial agreement on where trackers are parked, everyone who raids knows these locations. Nwall in Fear isn't one of them. This isn't a stretch, it's a can of worms.

What are the clerics tracking?

Of course you cannot have monks help with a pull if they are trackers... that's not tracking...

This feels a lot like rule lawyering. I swapped one tracker for another to... track. Not FTE, not pull, not train mobs, not MT.

You keep playing this out in very distant circumstances.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are the clerics tracking?

Of course you cannot have monks help with a pull if they are trackers... that's not tracking...

This feels a lot like rule lawyering. I swapped one tracker for another to... track. Not FTE, not pull, not train mobs, not MT.

You keep playing this out in very distant circumstances.

You swapped him out at nwall, that's not a location for trackers. That's my issue.

[Pint]

There is no pre determined location for trackers, you can place your tracker where ever you want to. This is not up for debate, no one dictates where anyone else can place their tracker..

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no pre determined location for trackers, you can place your tracker where ever you want to. This is not up for debate, no one dictates where anyone else can place their tracker..

If you log on a player IN ZONE after the target dragon/god has spawned, it's not tracking, it's assisting with the encounter. Titling it as such is a stretch of the imagination, and thereby leaves a whole lot of other intangibles up for grabs as well.

Seeking clarification on this isn't a bad thing, it would certainly shore up the viability of this strategy - but it is our belief that this isn't legit under the current raid rules that have been modus operandi.

[Pint]

By your interpretation if a guild logs in a tracker to check the progress of an encounter then they are not tracking that encounter? Just because the mob is up does not mean that you cannot still log in to track it. That is absurd, you are trying to create a scenario where you can log in characters to heal, pull, tank, dps etc who are illegally parked. All Azure Guard did was log in a tracker to track the progress of the encounter.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By your interpretation if a guild logs in a tracker to check the progress of an encounter then they are not tracking that encounter? Just because the mob is up does not mean that you cannot still log in to track it. That is absurd, you are trying to create a scenario where you can log in characters to heal, pull, tank, dps etc who are illegally parked. All Azure Guard did was log in a tracker to track the progress of the encounter.

Pint, I've been in contact with Nemce and while you're trying, you're not fully in the loop. In lieu of entering into public conversation regarding the particulars...I'd like to focus this Raid Discussion post about the precedent this sets for future raid encounters. Addressing your question - what I'm specifically stating is that if you are tracking a mob, and it spawns, the you are no longer eligible to log characters on IN THE ZONE to assist in the encounter whatsoever. This has been the standard on Inny, CT, Draco, Vox, Naggy. Sev, Talendor, Gore, Faydedar, VS all have spots that have been designated as being in zone, but far enough away that a gamesmanship advantage is not gained.

The previous stance was clean, clear cut. Trackers in zone, nobody else. Zone in upon spawn, mobilize to your pull spot and execute a strategy.

Using this tactic, there's almost infinite abuse capabilities and now there's been gray area inserted into something that was far more manageable policy. All this does is potentially create more CSR work. It's going to take 50 raids with varying levels of pushing these new limits to find a boundary that sets the new operational boundary....

Referencing the Raid PnP, found HERE

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