Kael + ToV Rules

[Culkasi]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rule specifically mentions:

"All Temple of Veeshan raid targets as well as King Tormax / Statue"

I would believe getting FTE on Derakor does not play a role in this.

I tend to agree - again, its about the intent, not rules lawyering - in the grand scheme of things, every one of us is going to allow someone else to kill Vindi while we focus on Statue.

[Breaken]

If you are implying the same rules might apply in ToV, I believe you are incorrect.

The intent of the rule is that, for ToV specifically, when more than one mob is up (like a repop) you have to "clear" in. If a guild wants to get Vulak, they cannot simply .. run / FD / DA up through other named, getting agro on all of them, and finally FTE Vulak. If you agro Aaryonar, you have to kill him. The next guild would wind up agroing one of the named on either left or right side. Then, most likely, the guild that killed Aary (or a 3rd guild) will pull the next mob on that path. Then the next.. until a path is cleared.

[Culkasi]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are implying the same rules might apply in ToV, I believe you are incorrect.

The intent of the rule is that, for ToV specifically, when more than one mob is up (like a repop) you have to "clear" in. If a guild wants to get Vulak, they cannot simply .. run / FD / DA up through other named, getting agro on all of them, and finally FTE Vulak. If you agro Aaryonar, you have to kill him. The next guild would wind up agroing one of the named on either left or right side. Then, most likely, the guild that killed Aary (or a 3rd guild) will pull the next mob on that path. Then the next.. until a path is cleared.

I am not, I am saying that, for the purposes of the discussions here, I think we can all agree that Vindi is irrelevant and not rules lawyer about it. Anyone who can realistically kill Statue don't mind that 1 Vindi every 5 days, so lets just call it irrelevant. ToV is a very different discussion all together, I agree - and I really like the picture you are painting of that btw, that sounds like a fun and exciting ToV that resembles my classic experience a lot.

[Breaken]

I think for a server repop it sounds interesting. For normal spawns, it will not be. This forces more trackers and screen sharing. Also, limiting to SoW now gives Bind Sight the advantage, mainly for Kael, East ToV, West ToV, and the first few North mobs.

[Kileras]

i am assuming once FTE is secure there will be a reset and train/up/down to bring the mob to entrance, which means everyone else needs to vacate or move their racers or else they die.

if you train another guilds racer ( if a second pop) while you are training up/down to pull your mob to entrance i imagine thats a training violation and raid ban?

the spirit of the rule seems to be that you would clear to the mob, but i imagine since that isn't clearly stated there will be a footrace for fte, reset, and then traditional train up/down. lets discuss that here now instead of keeping our plans secret on how people plan to circumvent the spirit of the rule.

[Daldaen]

All of the rules posted are what you must do until FTE goes out. Once FTE goes out you may pull or kill your target however you wish.

To be honest, racers need to remove train from their vocabulary until FTE goes out. Once you pass the North door and reach Aaryonar stairs... Everything is KoS, everything casts AEs, everything can kill every player. Hide/Sneaks will break, FDs will be broken and people will die. No one should be responsible for what happens to other racers during the race. It's way too much of a cluster.

If a guild does a pull on their mob while racers are coming up, a very unique set of circumstances would need to occur for racers to get trained. Usually you will have no aggro and you'll run through their train up or down. Only when the train is dropped will there be issues I think. Again, once you're past that North door anything should go because trying to legislate who was in the wrong up there is going to be a nightmare. Monks FDing will always drop mobs and they will aggro other racers... Not really the monks fault for using the FD ability.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of the rules posted are what you must do until FTE goes out. Once FTE goes out you may pull or kill your target however you wish.

To be honest, racers need to remove train from their vocabulary until FTE goes out. Once you pass the North door and reach Aaryonar stairs... Everything is KoS, everything casts AEs, everything can kill every player. Hide/Sneaks will break, FDs will be broken and people will die. No one should be responsible for what happens to other racers during the race. It's way too much of a cluster.

If a guild does a pull on their mob while racers are coming up, a very unique set of circumstances would need to occur for racers to get trained. Usually you will have no aggro and you'll run through their train up or down. Only when the train is dropped will there be issues I think. Again, once you're past that North door anything should go because trying to legislate who was in the wrong up there is going to be a nightmare. Monks FDing will always drop mobs and they will aggro other racers... Not really the monks fault for using the FD ability.

There's and Active and a Stasis issue with pulling to entrance.

The Stasis Issue is that Guild A pulls Zlexak to entrance to kill him and Guild B's racers are waiting for a Dagarn pop. Well since Guild B's racers cannot be outside of entrance and Zlexak's aoe hits the room then Guild B's racers are going to die. That's raid interference and a problem for guild B at the fault of guild A. Killing at entrance poses some real issues for this new ruleset for a racer of an opposing guild as they wait for mobs to pop.


The Active Issue with pulling to entrance here is the circumstance when guild A pulls Cekenar to entrance and guild B is waiting with racers at entrance for sisters or Vulak or Lord fishy to pop. Guild A pulls Cekenar and Lord fishy pops. Guild B sends out racers and the racers cross your train at 4 way. Guild A pulls Cekenar out and as the train is pathing back they eat the racers from Guild B before they even make it to north.

[arsenalpow]

Yes, it's going to be a clusterfuck, the likes of which have never been seen before. Feelings will be hurt, zones will desync, tears will be shed.

Classic Everquest raiding on P99, catch the fever.

[Daldaen]

That's a very narrow set of circumstances. It takes less than 1 minute to run from entrance to Aaryonar stairs.

In that one minute a guild must have a train perfectly timed and dropped and the spawns of two targets must have lined up to cause that.

I do see the issues you're talking about, but the window of opportunity for them to arise are very limited.

Honestly once a mob is up and racers leave the room there should be no train rules to limit the rule lawyering that will occur. I can't wait for the first concession call when a monk FDs some mobs that then aggro another racer literally right next to him.

----

Also it wasn't addressed... I'd imagine an alliance will share the same 60-min lockout timer while their mob is still alive.

Guild A and B raid together for Mob X when Guild A got FTE... This will mean that Guild B cannot run up and secure another FTE on Mob Y, correct? Atleast until Mob X is dead.

[Kileras]

so for a realistic and basic situation...

if you pull your mobs to entrance and the AoE kills my racers what are we supposed to do? Keep people logged in to heal our racers so we can maintain on the line in case of a pop? log out?

multiple mobs not on a quake happening at the same time will be rare but bringing mobs to entrance to AoE the rest of the racers will be an issues. Maybe this didn't happen with the two guild system since entrance/west was split, but how do we handle it now with potentially 3 more guilds in there?