Enchanter is broken and overpowered on P99

[azxten]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum. However, Enchanter remains broken and overpowered. I'm now playing an Enchanter myself to better catalog issues.

The main crux of my argument is that other classes such as Necro and Mage have been nerfed in terms of known classic mechanics like fine steel daggers lowering delay while damage stayed the same. If overpowered mechanics like this need to be nerfed then Enchanter is deserving of the same adjustment regardless of if the issues making Enchanter overpowered are classic or not.

HOWEVER, even considering that argument, Enchanter does not seem to operate in a classic manner.

1. Enchanter summoned pets had low ability to tank. On P99 low level enchanter pets seem about as good as mage/necro pets. Level 4-12 enchanter pet should not be able to tank and solo an even con as they can here. They were extremely weak on taking damage and were almost a short "shield" spell which matches the chosen model used for it. Even up to level 30 I'm seeing my summoned pet solo blue mobs.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/whitewi...ChantGuide.htm

"Your first pet spell. Strategy and tactics with pets will be discussed later. Requires 1 Tiny Dagger as a spell component, and your pet is a rogue. Hits for decent damage with low delay, but has weak HP. They don't tank well--and can never be commanded. "

"I don't know the hit points of your pet, but it's never good, so don't rely on your pet to take damage for you very long."

"Summons new animation. 2 Tiny Daggers required, hits harder now, has some more HP's, still no tank. (Little hint... without help, it will never be a tank.)"

"This animation hits for 10 to 14 damage now, and I'm not sure what levels they summon as--anyone want to offer that--and Bashes. Getting to be very good at shelling out fast damage."

2. Tashan is resistable. More evidence exists in the previous thread I posted but it seems to have been deleted so I can't reference the other thread's evidence.

https://fernworks.net/~dyeomans/Down...ll.asp%3FId=20

"Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2001 Psianne is a remake of my last enchanter Vayan. This spell was almost always resisted on everything that I cast it on. "

3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support but when has any mob in EQ not instantly regenned health once it's aggro list is cleared? On P99 you can mez a mob with the small mem blur component and it will retain low health while you avoid any aggro until spell breaks. This allows you to escape bad situations and then return to kill a low health mob that had no aggro.

4. Mesmerize did not mem wipe mobs so often. On P99 I'm mem wiping mobs something like 50% of the time it seems. Where did this rate rate of memory blur from mez come from?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/a...hp/t-9712.html

"Also mez would make them forget you but only like 1/10."

5. Channeling is still way too successful at lower levels. Starting at level 1 on P99 you can regularly cast through melee without interruption. This was a MAJOR part of making casters weaker early game that is missing from P99 and impacts Enchanter much more than other classes by allowing them to easily charm with 2-3 mobs hitting them which was often a death sentence on live.

http://www.zlizeq.com/Game_Mechanics-Spell_Casting

"Starting out at skill level 1, a new spell caster will have an incredibly difficult time getting any spell off when being hit by melee, but this gradually gets better as their Channeling skill is raised."

The combination of an overpowered tanky low level pet which allows easy leveling to 12, and charm, which used to be very difficult to do alone, with broken channeling that results in living through charm breaks much more often than live, and various questionable mechanics relating to tashan resists, mem blue from mez, and other minor quirks creates an extremely overpowered class that was never this way in classic.

Personally I think the channeling skill is the key to why Enchanter is so overpowered on P99. You seem to start at level 1 with the channeling ability of a max level character. While this makes all casters overpowered compared to classic it is even more impactful to charming Enchanters who can recharm with multiple mobs attacking them. Something that just didn't work on classic. I would really appreciate any help looking into channeling rates on P99 and historical evidence of actual channeling rates in classic.

Does anyone else remember when mez or charm broke and an Enchanter got aggro only for them to struggle and run in circles due to repeated interrupts from melee when trying to mez again? Groups often needed to help Enchanters in this situation but on P99 Enchanters lock down multiple mobs with very little difficulty as they cast through melee in almost all cases with ease and without using their stun spells.

[Noselacri]

I would be very leery of taking any of the really old guides and discussions at face value. I remember reading some hilariously incorrect stuff on Castersrealm back in the day. We're talking about a period of time where people widely believed Harmony was a mana regen buff, and that sitting too close to a mob's spawn location would make it respawn slower.

For instance, when someone says "[Tash] was almost always resisted on everything that I cast it on," you can pretty much dismiss that statement out of hand. Even if we pretend that tash actually had no negative resist modifier or anything, there's no such thing as a spell almost always getting resisted unless you cast it exclusively on raid bosses or something. No spell will ever get resisted almost always unless you're casting it on high reds. I personally remember tash being unresistable back then, but even if that memory should turn out to be inaccurate, the fact that your reference is a post of such questionable legitimacy really invalidates its citation. The way he describes it, tash would have to have had a +50 resist modifier or something, which we know it never did. The guy was probably 15 years old at the time and had no clue what he was talking about.

Unfortunately, since Everquest's inner workings were so poorly documented and the genre was so new back then, posts from random anonymous players of that day are largely worthless.

Channeling does feel off on P99, though. Even at very low levels you can just chain-cast spells through a mob meleeing you and probably not get interrupted at all except from bash. As I recall, channeling through hits didn't really become common until level 20+ when the skill passed the 100 point mark that tends to be the threshold for dependable success with most binary skills (same as hide, feign death, mend, forage, etc.)

Enchanters used to be even more overpowered here back when troll illusion gave full troll regen and Whirl was always a 12 second stun. Those were the days.

[Izmael]

Has the OP played an enc past level 12 ?

[Videri]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support but when has any mob in EQ not instantly regenned health once it's aggro list is cleared? On P99 you can mez a mob with the small mem blur component and it will retain low health while you avoid any aggro until spell breaks. This allows you to escape bad situations and then return to kill a low health mob that had no aggro.

If you're in line of sight and within aggro range, it will instantly reaggro. Only if you pacify and then mez/blur will the mob begin to regen 5% per tick. They do! People use that to heal their pet up.

I can't weigh in regarding classic enchanting, though. Good luck in your ClassicQuest.

[Wutaan]

This always makes me crack up. Ench is a very strong class but it is only as good as the effort you put into it.

In order to be that apex Enchanter you will NEVER be able to afk, unless in a premade and even then. You want to solo those le epic chanter only mobs, good luck they are tough and you have to be attentive.

It is hard work being a good enchanter.

[azxten]

Originally Posted by Wutaan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This always makes me crack up. Ench is a very strong class but it is only as good as the effort you put into it.

In order to be that apex Enchanter you will NEVER be able to afk, unless in a premade and even then. You want to solo those le epic chanter only mobs, good luck they are tough and you have to be attentive.

It is hard work being a good enchanter.

Not lining up with my experience so far. I'm soloing rooms full of mobs including named camps and it's pretty easy. Like I've said, it seems easiest because I channel through ridiculous amounts of melee damage. I don't even use my AE stun I just eat the damage.

I'm also pretty suspicious about the Gate spell on P99. Even before I played Enchanter it just seems to have some kind of bonus success rate or something. Cast Gate with 5 mobs on you? It seems to mysteriously channel much more than it ever did on live and the "gate collapse" is way more common.

[Googi]

cries enchanters are overpowered

plays one to record results

[DMN]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum. However, Enchanter remains broken and overpowered. I'm now playing an Enchanter myself to better catalog issues.

Sounds like you were operating with forgone conclusions. Never the best way to approach any issue empirically.

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main crux of my argument is that other classes such as Necro and Mage have been nerfed in terms of known classic mechanics like fine steel daggers lowering delay while damage stayed the same. If overpowered mechanics like this need to be nerfed then Enchanter is deserving of the same adjustment regardless of if the issues making Enchanter overpowered are classic or not.

Enchanters were also "nerfed" by the FS dagger issue, and mages were massively buffed mage pets couldn't equip ANY weapons for a long time in classic but have since day one on green. So the "crux" of your argument seems pretty weak.

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Enchanter summoned pets had low ability to tank. On P99 low level enchanter pets seem about as good as mage/necro pets. Level 4-12 enchanter pet should not be able to tank and solo an even con as they can here. They were extremely weak on taking damage and were almost a short "shield" spell which matches the chosen model used for it. Even up to level 30 I'm seeing my summoned pet solo blue mobs.

They still have low ability to tank. You need to have good enough slow to keep them alive. as time goes by. Pets were rarely used by enchanters back in the classic time period because the enchanter was considered a pure "grouping" and the pets would break mez's which was considered the main feature of the class(mainly crowd control/buffing) class. You went further to quote smone who said the enchanter pets are rogues. Careful here maybe you are gonna get enchanters buffed instead, eh? Also why you have to be careful trust what some random joe has to say.

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. Tashan is resistable. More evidence exists in the previous thread I posted but it seems to have been deleted so I can't reference the other thread's evidence.

I'm the one that brought up tash being resistible during early classic time period. it ws changed a couple months after launch, around the same time they got clarity added to their spell list. Prior to that its resist rate was similar to root spells. The quote from 2001 was obviously someone that didnt know about the level capped resist or cast on a magic resist mob. it was changed Waaaaaaay before 2001.

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Mesmerized mobs should not retain their low health if aggro list is cleared.

No evidence to support

These is a very good reason you have no evidence to support. Can you guess what it is?

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. Mesmerize did not mem wipe mobs so often. On P99 I'm mem wiping mobs something like 50% of the time it seems. Where did this rate rate of memory blur from mez come from?

i think the the memory wipe aspect of classic EQ was indeed somewhat different but unfortunately I don't remember the exact details. What I recall was that at low levels memblur worked extremely well and as levels increased it slowly but progressively became a bit more difficult to land the blur.

I do know that it was nowhere near 1% though.I remember in sebilis back then a typical pull would go something like me dazzling the adds, tash slow the main target, then move to the next one debuff one with tash and slow, then hit it twice with memory wipe and you'd wipe the hate about 9 out of 10 times. The enchanter would then tell the group which mob was going to be next(the debuff/wiped one), while the enchanter then moved to debuffing/wiping the next mob and potentially rmezzinging mobs if/when needed.

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5. Channeling is still way too successful at lower levels. Starting at level 1 on P99 you can regularly cast through melee without interruption. This was a MAJOR part of making casters weaker early game that is missing from P99 and impacts Enchanter much more than other classes by allowing them to easily charm with 2-3 mobs hitting them which was often a death sentence on live.

Considering how fast enchanter stuns cast, if anything a generous channeling check helps any other class more, since enchanters already have the tool to solve that problem available. You really seem to lack basic understanding of enchantress/the game general which makes me suspicious of any of your other claims.

[Zipity]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Previously I posted a thread about this which I believe was one of the most popular threads ever on this forum.

Troll feeding the enchanters for attention, strong play.

[Baler]

I feel like much of the "overpowered" feeling enchanters put off is due to game mechanics and knowledge being far more understood and available than in 1999-2001.

Enchanters is pretty squishy in my opinion. And if we're talking velious end game gear, every class can shine.