GM Rule book from Kunark/ Velious - Limited CS Zones

[zel]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is magnanimously stupid. As recently as this week TMO still gets trained in VP by guilds that don't even attempt any mobs there.

As if TMO didn't do the same thing when FE actively attempted dragons. Stall with a group of people til thier majority could get on at primetime 8hr later... GTFO with that bullshit...

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Shaunte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's cute that you guys think the staff here actually do anything properly.

Paypalmelinda
Bort
Sirken
Ambrotos
Secrets

Great track record.

Caught 350+ people cheating? Free pass.
Caught an entire guild exploiting raid mobs on red? Free pass.
Caught another entire guild exploiting raid mobs on red? Free pass.
Caught an entire guild exploiting pathing in VP? Free pass.
Caught on video exploiting IP exemptions to train with impunity? Free pass.

The staff are quite possibly the worst in any emulated MMO community I've seen, while the emulated content itself is pure gold. It's a shame these clowns ruin it by being complete and utter amateurish failures.

Nilbog. Fire these faggots for ruining your work's image.

You forgot a few things:

- Spawn timers being leaked by staff members with access to the database (this may have happened more than once)

- Dupers being unbanned

- Some guilds getting far harsher punishments for the same exact incidents that other guilds were given a slap on the wrist for.

It makes perfect sense that they don't want to deal with CSR given the horrible track record and the fact that it's always going to be scrutinized, but this is very much a case of 'you made the bed you're sleeping in.'

[Frieza_Prexus]

I do think it'd be very beneficial for the server to implement a few pre-agreements regarding some select Velious zones, agreements that everyone could get on board with. I have no doubt that the leadership, and most TMO members would be willing to seriously mull these over.

For example, if you clear X % of PoG, you get first rights on Tunare. Or perhaps the first guild to down Ail The Elder has X number of hours or three attempts on her, whichever is first. Can you AoE the majority of PoG? This might factor into it. Here it might be permissible to set up an automated CSR script that tracks certain factions and announces when a single guild has obtained "rights." It wouldn't be non-classic in the sense that it would save a GM from logging on to rule, it'd have 0 impact on actual gameplay.

Sleeper's should be a no-train zone with a single exception: killing more than two warders should be a trainable event. I think we should have a safety margin by leaving an extra warder up at all times. It's just good policy. It also leads to more loot long term from the warders due to a lessened chance that the Sleeper will be woken. I'm saying it now, anyone who wakes the Sleeper for the lulz is a shitbag. I don't care if you're in my guild, it's an asshole move and you know it. This is one of those times where we need to break down the fences of mistrust and watch out as a community. Let's not turn this server into the Stanford Prison Experiment anymore than it already is.

ToV-North should be non-trainable. Vulak is given to the first guild to kill X# of dragons. I think there's a VERY strong case to be made for tying all of ToV into a single repop scheme whose timer does not start until all dragons are down. NToV was a dragon crawl on live, and it should be here. Perhaps we could make it so that downing Aaryonnar allows a guild to "Pick" which dragon (or two or three) it tackles next (minus Vulak who is determined by first to reach X kills of dragons past Aary). On live downing Aaryonnar was very often the manner used to settle NToV disputes, and it would actually be fairly classic to use him as some kind of "advantage" granter. Also, if Vulak pops separately, he can easily be 3AM sniped. Without any other dragons up, his summon will be useless.

Vindi should not be on a variance, and it'd be nice to see a rule that he cannot be killed more than twice in a row by the same guild. Or make it so that the guild that has 2 kills in a row must wait 2 hours after his next spawn or whatever. Vindi is extremely common, but the BP is always going to be in heavy demand. I think we'd benefit a lot from a rule like that.

Also, I'm not sure if it's possible, but I'd love to see the entrance to PoM rehidden, at least for the first few months, as a way to make it "special" again. I think ShowEQ users might be able to see the zoneline? Maybe it could be a secret quest where the NPC teleports you there with the right dialogue? Just a thought. PoM was very special early on, and my server actually had a lower-tier guild get in a good bit before the #1 guild and it was refreshing to say the least.

[Tiddlywinks]

Or we could, y'know, attempt to emulate classic, remove variance, and CSR accordingly.

Nice ideas though, just what this server needs, more people spinning conjecture on how to make the server enjoyable to the largest number of people/themselves as opposed to actually recreating a classic server.

Then again I don't think most people have actually cared about the servers mission statement much in the past 2 years anyway.

[Nirgon]

The internet of today is not the internet of yesterdecade.

Easier to access, more scum, more problems

The best point made is Nilbog citing that each server on live had its, say, hundred or so truly competent (I didn't say good) EQ players

Almost the entire population here has a pretty good handle on things and isn't starry eyed and lost in the world

So you have more people in contested areas. I can't even tell you how rarely we could find a group outsie the guild/raid sect, if ever, that could do SolB efreeti. Most players here are familiar with lulling, debuffing and splitting the mobs leading up that way and you can do it.

Now, put all these people together (along with their feelings of entitlement) in non-instanced areas. Surprise! There's bullshit!




Again, don't forget. And please correct me if I'm wrong.

None of what happened matters in the true grand scheme of things unless you want to brag about being some kind of EQ legend on a server that was heavily undeveloped and for a while did not represent classic EQ very much.

It's getting pretty close. Bring your bragging rights to the big show on the finished project server.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do think it'd be very beneficial for the server to implement a few pre-agreements regarding some select Velious zones, agreements that everyone could get on board with

There have been a few cases where agreements between both staff and players have been taken back at the staff's behest. The proposed raid rules change being crapped on is another such incident.

Agreements don't matter here, not unless there's a willingness to see them through - and there isn't. Don't bother.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do think it'd be very beneficial for the server to implement a few pre-agreements regarding some select Velious zones, agreements that everyone could get on board with. I have no doubt that the leadership, and most TMO members would be willing to seriously mull these over.

I speak for myself, but I'm calling bullshit on this. BDA, VD, and FE have all stated they were willing to work on agreements. I'm at a catch-22 where I feel its futile to bring anything to TMO while at the same time I can't trust anything TMO may bring to the table.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or we could, y'know, attempt to emulate classic, remove variance.

Nothing I've said precludes those. They're two separate issue. Regarding your comment that we remove CSR: many servers had GM enforced agreements and community agreements regarding raid scenes. Am I unequivocally suggesting that we should have GM enforced agreements? No. I am suggesting that agreements are an option be they player run, or GM enforced, and that they are undeniably classic.

Originally Posted by tiddlywinks

more people spinning conjecture on how to make the server enjoyable to the largest number of people/themselves as opposed to actually recreating a classic server.

What are you suggesting? As I mentioned, any proposed rules/agreements that I have mentioned are well within the scope of "classic" due to the varied circumstances among the many servers. Are you suggesting that I am proposing these changes because they benefit me or TMO? Without a PoG agreement TMO, or any guild for that matter, would be able to jump into PoG and destroy Tunare while the smaller guilds are just standing there holding the bag after clearing the zone for 5+ hours. This way, if she pops while they're farming smaller guilds have a guaranteed manner in which to attempt her.

It's the same in NToV. If training is allowed, NToV will be hellishly difficult, doubly so if the proper proximity aggro changes are put into place. TMO is currently the only guild that might stand a chance at downing a dragon while being trained, and even then it's a VERY iffy proposition if the trainers are half-way competent. These suggestions make it more difficult for TMO to monopolize certain content.

If you're not suggesting that my suggestions are self-interested, then please ignore the above. I am unsure of what you mean to say.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't bother.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy and a defeatist attitude. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with it, unless you mean to maintain the status quo. Which I strongly doubt you do.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I speak for myself, but I'm calling bullshit on this. BDA, VD, and FE have all stated they were willing to work on agreements. I'm at a catch-22 where I feel its futile to bring anything to TMO while at the same time I can't trust anything TMO may bring to the table.

I don't really blame you, or anyone else for that matter, to doubt the sincerity or the motivations of the guild, but there's not much to lose by trying. The majority of TMO are reasonable people. We all know how quickly and easily certain individuals can co-opt the direction of an organization. I catch a lot of flak for saying this, but there's just a smaller section that are vehemently against agreements of any kind, and they gain traction and support as mistrust builds. It's really a negative cycle. There's also a minority that supports cooperative play to varying degrees, and they can also gain traction under the right circumstances.

Velious can be seen as a fresh start, and I think it's entirely possible for the entire server to embrace some rules and agreements before hand.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy and a defeatist attitude. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with it, unless you mean to maintain the status quo. Which I strongly doubt you do.

It's not a defeatist attitude - it's reality. Promises have been made and promises broken, but rarely have they ever been kept. You're being hopeful when you have no reason to be, and recent events only back the point that it's fruitless.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't really blame you, or anyone else for that matter, to doubt the sincerity or the motivations of the guild, but there's not much to lose by trying. The majority of TMO are reasonable people. We all know how quickly and easily certain individuals can co-opt the direction of an organization. I catch a lot of flak for saying this, but there's just a smaller section that are vehemently against agreements of any kind, and they gain traction and support as mistrust builds. It's really a negative cycle. There's also a minority that supports cooperative play to varying degrees, and they can also gain traction under the right circumstances.

Velious can be seen as a fresh start, and I think it's entirely possible for the entire server to embrace some rules and agreements before hand.

There's not much to gain by trying either. The reasonable majority you claim to have is also a silent/quiet majority, at least by historic actions. I'd love for Velious to be a fresh start, but this is a case of "your only as strong as your weakest link,", and TMO is the weak link in the chain of cooperation. Walk your talk, Xasten.