#91
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Also the +sta is objectively worse than the +wis while leveling in my opinion, especially given you have much better +ac/sta/hp combos for armor options on gear than wisdom/mana. You get better returns on the +wis than +sta through the entirety of time playing. So it makes sense to take the armor that has better overall combinations of ac and/or hp and/or sta and bulk up on the wisdom at char select since it's a single stat option, and not combined with other stats. And as demonstrated, you can cap sta without starting with more than 105, with very little determent to other stats, but you'll never cap wisdom without severe loss of hps.
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#92
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My own experience in west wastes, when I've used the wife's shaman to solo there, is that mana tends to be the limiting factor because you can kite them to land malo/slow, and the most likely cause of trouble tends to be getting hordes of adds during a pull from a non-coastline dragon, and you can't torpor if you need to be moving, so that can strain the mana bar. I would want higher health someplace like velketor where I might have to break a 4- or 5- pull and absorb considerable damage during the rooting process. I've done that using the shaman on occasion and due to low resist rates, HP are very much favored over mana for that type of scenario. I haven't personally done any of the "trophy kill" stuff using the wife's shaman. We've done plenty of stuff duo, some of it quite tough, but if we're duo I'm on my Shadowknight, so I can't comment on those types of battles from a solo shaman's perspective. Stuff like west wastes, velketor, most of mischief, I regard as more meat-and-potatoes that nearly any max-level shaman who wants to solo will do at some point. Danth | |||
Last edited by Danth; 07-21-2022 at 05:53 PM..
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#93
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You are also correct about what you noticed about mana when fighting WW Dragons. People always forget that Shaman spells are expensive hehe. Pox is 430 mana, Malo is 350 mana, Insidious Decay is 100 mana, and Turgur's insects is 150 mana. One round of each spell is 1030 mana, which is 1/3 of a Shaman's mana bar at 3k mana. If you get a few resists on Pox or Turgurs that can easily be another 1000 mana. Plus you need to Torpor for 200 mana. You can quickly run out if you get unlucky.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#94
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The vast, vast majority of the times I've died in such fights, I've had plenty of mana, but I couldn't land a slow (or reslow) in time and I died from lack of HP. Only in the extreme minority ... I'd guess well under 5% ... did I land a slow, get the fight going, battle the mob for awhile, and land a re-slow, yet I somehow ran out of mana and died. Plus, I'm pretty sure I didn't start at max mana in any of those fights: they were always ones where I started with less than max because I was trying to beat someone to a mob. Honestly, it's almost unheard of for Loramin to start a fight with full mana and even get to OOM at the end (dead or alive), because Cann + Torpor is a really good combo. But again, I'd welcome evidence, or just a good logical argument, for why I'm doing them wrong and most other Shaman would burn through their entire mana pool before dying. Quote:
You all provided Magelos of a Shaman who's finished 99% of their Shamaning ... further supporting my point that the kind of Shaman we're talking about (Barb, non-high-end-raid) won't hit the Stamina cap until they're almost done playing. Quote:
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue server, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of up to 2k+ platinum! Message me for details. | |||||||
Last edited by loramin; 07-21-2022 at 07:14 PM..
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#95
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Personally, I would never use Stamina (or any) potions for farming, because potions = negative plat, and the goal of farming is positive plat. But as we discussed earlier, different Shaman play differently, and if you're ok with burning through potions regularly then I 100% agree you can hit the Stamina cap faster than I've been making it out (maybe 95% of the way through your Shaman career instead of 99%?) Quote:
Also, now I want to try soloing Sebilite Protectors with them: if one good thing has come out of this thread, it's that it's made me want to play my "first love" on this server again [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (BTW I still haven't even gotten him the headdress yet, even after you provided that super helpful write-up of how to do it. I'm such a slacker when it comes to Blue these days ...)
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue server, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of up to 2k+ platinum! Message me for details. | ||||
Last edited by loramin; 07-21-2022 at 07:26 PM..
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#96
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Similar to 22 a WW dragon isn't gonna get face tanked the entire time while trying to slow it. You can make some space for at least a couple slow attempts during pull to kill spot, then torping self and trying more slows. In crypt you can attempt to malo/root take small step back to get a slow attempt in, at least 1-2 times throughout the slow attempts while torping self. Less room to work with here but there is some flexibility. Even worst case tossing a chloroblast between waiting for slow gem to refresh to buy you some more hps between slow attempts can help render you oom around the time you run out of hps and die, but at least you get an extra slow attempt off. Quote:
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#97
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75HP at level 60 will not help you survive a pre-slow crisis. If you are at 75HP and the mob still isn't slowed, you are dead because mobs hit for 140+ at level 60. 150-250 mana will generally not help you survive in a pre-slow crisis either. In both cases, it would come down to rare luck. With that being said, Mana can help you survive solo encounters at level 60. I have been in situations where WW Dragons resisted too many spells, and I ended up being OOM with around 50% HP. Even though the mob was slowed, cannibalizing 200 mana to cast another Torpor would cost 450 HP. With the mob being able to double attack for 400, you are at the risk of losing ~900HP in a very short period of time. That is very risky when 50% of my HP is 1300 HP. I would be at 400HP when Torpor went off, assuming I don't get double attacked again for 400. Having that 200 extra mana would mean I could cast a Torpor without having to cannibalize, giving me more breathing room to recover. Last time I checked, 450 HP is greater than 75HP hehe. Realistically speaking you only need enough max HP in a solo encounter to safely pre-slow a monster most of the time. After that the extra max HP is generally wasted, as you never go to max HP during an encounter. In a crisis situation, you will often times end up dying anyway, even if you had an extra 100HP, due to how hard/fast mobs hit at 60.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#98
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The only way I can see efficiency being relevant here is the efficiency of "not dying = leveling faster" (or not losing your camp, if you're farming). And again extra HP will keep you alive far more often than extra mana (at any level): 0 HP = death 100% of the time, 0 Mana = death far less than 100%. Quote:
But if you kill a mob a hundred times (as you do when farming), the RNG turns on you sometimes. Your stats don't matter all the times things go smoothly: they matter for the times when the shit hits the fan, and no matter how much kiting, Torporing, whatever you do, you can't land a Slow and the mob keeps hurting you. I'm arguing that it's those "shit hits the fan" cases which matter ... and I'll even grant that in X% of those cases, having even 500 extra HP still won't save you! But overall, in the cases where your stats do matter, having extra "life points" is going to be the best way to "stay alive". Quote:
... but even if it was ... we're quibbling over whether the Shaman will hit the cap for the last 99% their career, or just the last 97%. Quote:
But if we are theorcrafting, let's theorycraft, and I just don't agree with that quote: 75 HP absolutely can help you survive. Not a lot ... but a whole lot more than Mana will. Quote:
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue server, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of up to 2k+ platinum! Message me for details. | ||||||||
Last edited by loramin; 07-21-2022 at 09:27 PM..
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#99
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In reality once you have enough Max HP to consistently clear the encounter, any more is pure waste. People who claim you need max HP just because it "can help" are generally just bad at the game and don't know how much life they need for an encounter.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 07-21-2022 at 11:34 PM..
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#100
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I'm writing as someone recieving the advice but applying it to my low level ogre shaman.
If I understand the formulas correctly, for sub 200 wisdom, a point of wisdom returns 4x as much mana as a point of stamina returns hp. Post 200 wisdom, wisdom returns 1.55x as much mana as sta returns hp. So for earlier game I'm asking myself if I have a choice between a 100mana item and a 25hp item which do I wear? I think I take the 100 mana item -- equivalently, I'd rather have my starting points in wisdom than stamina when I'm not geared past the wisdom soft cap. What about 25 hp vs 39 mana (25*1.55)? The hp sounds good to me at that ratio, so if I'm geared like loramin with soft capped wis and not-capped sta, the sta looks preferable to the wis. Do I think my wisdom will be soft capped, then? The magelos I've seen in this thread make me think I'm likely to be sub 200 wisdom until I'm approaching the stamina hard cap, especially as an ogre. I made my shaman before I read this thread, but I'm feeling comfortable with my choice of 25 wis / 5 sta. | ||
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