most underpowered class in game?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never claimed that mage dps is preferred over rogue dps. But being 60 doesn't really change the evaluation of a mage vs rogue in terms of overall power. Mage will still be a better soloer, a more versatile duo/trio companion, a similarly effective big group dps as a rogue. And yes, in the raid scene, you will see more rogues because you can pile on the DPS whereas you only need a few coth bots & magicians can't really nuke or pet much. But raiding/level 60 are only specific aspects of the game. There's still 59 levels before that, and all of the other scenarios which I've already described, which simply make magicians a more powerful class overall than a rogue.

If OP was asking which class is the most underpowered for leveling you would be correct, Rogue would be it. But OP didn't ask that. How the character plays at 60 is big part of the consideration, because you can play for a long time at 60, whether you raid or not.

As far as I know OP isn't asking about which class is the best for leveling and then quitting at 60.

[Jimjam]

Did some velks upper dogs xp recently (58-59 enc,cleric,war,mag) and honestly mag was no slouch. Wouldn’t have replaced it with another class if I had a choice.

I find it hard to place mage as most underpowered cos it slaps 4-39 on a new server, has a decent epic and a clear intractable raid role.

I don’t think I can pick out a most underpowered class. The ones which seem a bit bum often have a huge trump card to bring them back in the running.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did some velks upper dogs xp recently (58-59 enc,cleric,war,mag) and honestly mag was no slouch. Wouldn’t have replaced it with another class if I had a choice.

I find it hard to place mage as most underpowered cos it slaps 4-39 on a new server, has a decent epic and a clear intractable raid role.

In most cases you would rate a class based on something more specific (solo, group, raid). OP is asking about most underpowered overall, which is a much bigger thought process to consider.

And again, "underpowered" in Everquest does not mean bad, or you shouldn't play them. Luckily there are no bad or broken classes.

[Vivitron]

Rogues are mostly group classes, so you weigh soloing lightly on them.

This depends very much on the player's progression in the game.

When you're leveling your first and so-far only character? Having better solo / duo / trio options absolutely has weight because sometimes you can't find a group or don't have the time and attention to dedicate to one.

The resources to just swap to a better character for the situation come later.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If OP was asking which class is the most underpowered for leveling you would be correct, Rogue would be it. But OP didn't ask that. How the character plays at 60 is big part of the consideration, because you can play for a long time at 60, whether you raid or not.

As far as I know OP isn't asking about which class is the best for leveling and then quitting at 60.

Again, playing at 60 doesn't really change anything in terms of mage vs rogue overall power. Just because there are more of them at 60 doesn't make them an overall more powerful class, it just caters to the raid centric people whereas non raiders probably moved onto other projects. A mage will still win out due to their superior solo, duo/trio capabilities, and pretty similar group effectiveness, all of which can still be done at 60.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, playing at 60 doesn't really change anything in terms of mage vs rogue overall power. Just because there are more of them at 60 doesn't make them an overall more powerful class, it just caters to the raid centric people whereas non raiders probably moved onto other projects. A mage will still win out due to their superior solo, duo/trio capabilities, and pretty similar group effectiveness, all of which can still be done at 60.

You yourself admitted that Rogues out DPS Mages at 60, which is the primary role a Mage would be filling at 60. The reason why there are more level 60 Rogues is because of how little Mages can do at 60 realistically speaking. There are much better solo artist classes, and Rogues are better DPS classes in groups. That is the problem with Mages, they kinda get screwed in both scenarios. You level up your Mage and then run out of things to do.

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good solo character, Mage is not the best choice, because their options for solo camps get more limited as they level due to lack of CC and utility.

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good grouping character, Mage is not the best choice either, because Monk/Rogue will out DPS them, and DPS is the role they generally fill.

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good raiding character, both are good, they just have different roles.

So I just don't see a reason to realistically level a Mage unless you simply like the class or want a CoTH bot. There is nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make them good.

[PatChapp]

I have a lvl 60 mage on green that I basically don't play. They are kinda trash at lvl60, but pretty fun to get there. Very strong,but boring class at raids. Running rip sticks or mod rods is about the depth of them once coths are done.
I don't think their hugely underpowered, more one dimensional. Mages don't have alot of options

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You yourself admitted that Rogues out DPS Mages at 60, which is the primary role a Mage would be filling at 60. The reason why there are more level 60 Rogues is because of how little Mages can do at 60 realistically speaking. There are much better solo artist classes, and Rogues are better DPS classes in groups. That is the problem with Mages, they kinda get screwed in both scenarios. You level up your Mage and then run out of things to do.

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good solo character, Mage is not the best choice, because their options for solo camps get more limited as they level due to lack of CC and utility.

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good grouping character, Mage is not the best choice either, because Monk/Rogue will out DPS them, and DPS is the role they generally fill.

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good raiding character, both are good, they just have different roles.

So I just don't see a reason to realistically level a Mage unless you simply like the class or want a CoTH bot. There is nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make them good.

I'm not denying there aren't better solo classes, nor am I denying that rogues are better dps classes. But the problem here is we are talking about one class overall in this discussion, and now you're bringing multiple classes and multiple scenarios into the picture. That is all irrelevant. All you've done here is confirmed why we like to roll multiple alts, lol.

Mages overall have a pretty respectable rating due to the number of different areas they can contribute to. I'm not claiming they are the most powerful class, but they certainly aren't the most underpowered one, as most people in this thread have agreed to besides you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Rogues are pretty much just one trick ponies, while this makes them amazing raiders, they still are extremely underpowered when looking at the full scope.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you only have time to level one character, and you want a good grouping character, Mage is not the best choice either, because Monk/Rogue will out DPS them, and DPS is the role they generally fill.

My experience with xp groups is that they look to fill roles and take a class that is sufficient for it, e.g. "docks seeks <Healer|Tank|DPS|CC|Puller>," and that mages are perfectly welcome in the DPS role.

I post the above because you have kind of gone full circle from roughly arguing that groups not gear checking implies they don't consider dps to be a significant role to arguing that because rogues outdamage mages, mages are a significantly worse grouping class. In my experience neither extreme is true: xp groups seek dps, but they're not so tight about it that they reject mages while waiting for rogues.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I think SK's, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, and Wizards are better than Mages at soloing because they can do more camps via utility. Who cares how good a Mage can be at specific camps if you can't get into them, for example? Having a larger pool of camps to choose from allows more consistency when leveling. This is again assuming Velious, because that is where this server always ends.

Exactly what camps are you trying to do solo with those classes that you can't with Mage?

Mages farm better and level faster than all of the classes you named (MUCH, MUCH faster than the Hybrid classes, especially Paladin, and especially before Velious). There can be some camps they are worse at, but those other classes are very likely going to earn less plat per hour by doing them. How is it better to be able to choose from more shitty camps, rather than spending your time leveling faster and getting more money? Rangers doing Quillmane is pretty much the only relevant thing I can think of where one of those classes could actually generate more "gains" solo than a Mage.

Also, "assuming Velious" is silly. If p99 has a proper recycle server, then Green would only be in Velious 40% of the time (or less). And within that timeline, it's only at the very end where Pally/SK reach their best state. Even in Velious regardless, Mage is still a better solo class than any of these others you listed.