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  #31  
Old 03-09-2021, 10:18 PM
malkavviaa malkavviaa is offline
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  #32  
Old 04-15-2021, 09:27 PM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
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bumpity bump.
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  #33  
Old 04-16-2021, 10:48 AM
Dolalin Dolalin is offline
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Okay so now that I have the eq-archives fully indexed, I thought run some searches about this.

eqforge from 2001:
Quote:
Call of Sky

Imbues any weapon you use with a chance to proc a 35 direct damage hit and a 1 foot push back. The push back can interrupt spell casting. Velious obtained

http://web.archive.org/web/200102150...spell_five.htm
Allakhazam post from 2001 about vox:
Quote:
Posted @ Sun, Sep 9th 11:43 AM 2001

You can interrupt Vox by pushing her a great deal in a single direction. Channeling checks work in that the server takes a loc of where you are when you start, and finish casting a spell. If you are outside a certain range for your channeling skill, you are interrupted. This goes for Vox too. You cannot Bash, or Stun her.

Oh and there aren't any limits on dragon combat. But you would die instantly anywhere below level 40, and be a mana sink under level 46 with good resists.

Praetor, 60th Crusader
Avatars of Discord

http://web.archive.org/web/200305121...99990747325339
More alla posts from early 2002:
Quote:
RE: The only downside... Reply... By: NarayenGenocide the Wise,
Posted @ Sat, Apr 27th 7:54 AM 2002 Score: Decent[2.65]

No, you cannot interrupt ANY monster that is lvl57+ no matter if you can land stuns on them or not. The only way to break casting on 57+ mobs is with melee/nuke push or casting a high level mezz spell (if they are within the 57-60 range).

-----------------------
Narayen Annihilation
60 Cleric and blatent homosexual. Of veeshan... Phallus phallus phallus phallus phallus phallus phallus
phallus. GIMMY LOVE, HOT MAN LOVE.

---

RE: The only downside... Reply... By: Kandozo,
Posted @ Tue, May 14th 6:25 PM 2002

The effect on the Tranquil Staff (Fist of One Hundred Blows I believe it is called) is also able to stun 55+ creatures just fine. I've seen our guildleader whip out his TStaff and stun the ancient guardian wurms in Halls of Testing in ToV to preven the things from gating.

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll never come to work again

---

RE: The only downside... Reply... By: RyuOki,
Posted @ Sat, Apr 27th 6:34 PM 2002

dont forget pushing. all melee on one side moving a mob in the same direction will prevent gating (a very important tactic on some of the more annoying caster mobs)

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=276039 dragul d'corpses
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=257999 coladiel cerulean


http://web.archive.org/web/200210291...tml?item=11739
So I think there was certainly a perception that pushing mobs could help interrupt casting (also maybe sorta interesting with the Tstaff thing in HoT).

But was it real?

I know TAKP has actual logs and tests of this stuff, I presume that's where the change came from. You have to defer to hard data if you have it I think.
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  #34  
Old 04-19-2021, 01:38 PM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
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It could very well be a coincidence, Dolalin, in the sense that there IS a very small chance to interrupt mobs via melee attacks (regardless of whether the mob moves spatially) - and this is what the players are referring to when they talk about melee pushing on one side to prevent a successful NPC spell cast.

I am highly dubious of that, though. I think anyone who plays a melee character can attest to how infinitesimally low that chance is to interrupt NPC spells via melee. Perhaps that chance is supposed to be higher? If push interrupt SEEMED as reliable as it did in Classic, maybe it was a function of the chance to interrupt NPCs via melee hit variable being much higher than it is here?

I don't know. It would be nice to get some developer input on this thread, though. God knows we have provided enough evidence on our end . . .it would be nice to see or hear what evidence was used to support this change.
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  #35  
Old 04-19-2021, 01:44 PM
Croco Croco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyHydras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It could very well be a coincidence, Dolalin, in the sense that there IS a very small chance to interrupt mobs via melee attacks (regardless of whether the mob moves spatially) - and this is what the players are referring to when they talk about melee pushing on one side to prevent a successful NPC spell cast.

I am highly dubious of that, though. I think anyone who plays a melee character can attest to how infinitesimally low that chance is to interrupt NPC spells via melee. Perhaps that chance is supposed to be higher? If push interrupt SEEMED as reliable as it did in Classic, maybe it was a function of the chance to interrupt NPCs via melee hit variable being much higher than it is here?

I don't know. It would be nice to get some developer input on this thread, though. God knows we have provided enough evidence on our end . . .it would be nice to see or hear what evidence was used to support this change.
As a monk in era this was not my experience. Once I got my epic I could pretty reliably interrupt caster mobs with melee push from using just my 16 delay fists.
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2021, 09:14 AM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
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Yea, this is what is staggering me on this one. It was changed -- with credit from TAKP devs, apparently -- despite an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence both from players on P99 community as well as posts from Allakhazam and other Classic sources that push was a reliable mechanic.

This leads me to believe that they must have SOME kind of dataset that would contradict that. But how does that jive with people like Croco and others testifying that they were able to, in era, easily interrupt caster mobs with epic fists alone?

What kind of data (if any) did they collect on TAKP? Is that even relevant here in this era? What is the metric? How was the metric measured? There are just so many questions left unanswered for an issue that is going to be 2 years old soon and was controversial from the very start.
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  #37  
Old 05-08-2021, 11:25 AM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
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...please?
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  #38  
Old 05-11-2021, 12:58 PM
Tigerstyle Wutangfist Tigerstyle Wutangfist is offline
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also bump - there are alot of old and valid, with a lot of research, bug reports being overlooked
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  #39  
Old 05-30-2021, 11:06 AM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
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Any word?
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  #40  
Old 06-02-2021, 10:28 AM
Pringles Pringles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].
From Torven
Quote:
"Our channeling code was very old stock EQEmu code pulled out of the air and was inaccurate. NPCs play by different rules. (old Rashere comments verify this) I went on Live just to see how it's done there and I could not interrupt a level 12 NPC wielding a combine dagger + efreeti standard after 30 minutes of melee and 330 casts. Of course they aren't pushed there, but the hits themselves trigger rolls. That NPC regained concentration 100% and most hits didn't trigger a channeling roll at all. I also tried casting push spells which prevented nothing.

AK logs were used as my primary source as you would expect however. Interrupts were possible but rare and extremely rare at high levels. Some examples:

level 73 ranger NPC
Emmerik Skyfury begins to cast a spell. (150)
Emmerik Skyfury regains concentration and continues casting. (18; 12%)
Emmerik Skyfury's casting is interrupted! (1; 0.6%)

level 70
Cazic Thule begins to cast a spell. (269)
Cazic Thule regains concentration and continues casting. (45; 16.7%)
Cazic Thule's casting is interrupted! (12; 4.5%)

level 67
Auliffe Chaoswind regains concentration and continues casting. (36; 23.3%)
Auliffe Chaoswind's casting is interrupted! (no sign of stun) (2; 1.3%)

level 66
Praesertum Matpa begins to cast a spell. (53)
Praesertum Matpa regains concentration and continues casting. (15; 28%)
(no interrupts)

NPC stun immunity is actually somewhat rare. If you find stun immune NPCs that look like they shouldn't be, you should probably bring those to my attention. I fixed some erroneously flagged NPCs in vexthal yesterday.

Bash can still interrupt stun immune NPCs, btw.

PC channeling is now using code found in a client decompile, so the accuracy on that is rather high. In fact it indicates that the channeling focus AA is so good that it leaves me wondering, but it's such strong evidence that I can't ignore it."

"Regarding NPC cast interrupts and push/displacement: The lull thread in general forum has some of the data I collected on this. TLDR of it is that I found zero evidence for it and plenty against it. A Sony dev stated that NPCs do not use channeling skill. The vast majority of NPC casts never show a 'regained concentration' or interrupt message and simply cast through melee. Dragon punch (3 unit push ability) never interrupting NPCs + monks complaining about no interrupt (dual wield class). NPCs on raids successfully casting all of their CH spells and logs just plain showing NPCs getting spells off through hordes of melee-- particularly stun immune level 66+ raid NPCs with success rates upwards of 99%. Lots of mana draining on ToV raids in these logs.

It makes little sense to me anyway for raid NPCs to not get spells off simply because your enchanters and SKs make pets, your wizards chain cast level 12 DDs, and paladins face the same wall. Some raid boss spells have cast times, and it would trivialize the fight to shut them off. If pushing then only worked on non-raid mobs, then what sense does it make for them to have coded some push threshold of like 4+ units before any sort of check is done? PCs have a location check for casts to prevent them from being bards; NPC AI can simply be coded to stop so they never needed location checking in the first place."
The problem with trying to do internet archeology, at this point, is that some people have figured out how to decompile old clients and get actual data to work with, rather than relying on humanity's hyperbolic memory.

You can find most of the reasoning for this change here: https://www.takproject.net/forums/in...changes.12968/
https://www.takproject.net/forums/in...14-2018.12991/
Last edited by Pringles; 06-02-2021 at 10:52 AM.. Reason: im both cool and gay
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