Any new red server will fail horribly.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Disease [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was joking. Nilbog already confirmed on RoZ discord that a new red will most likely never happen.

Don’t worry - I was joking too. It tickles me we were expecting one discord server but got the other.

[Raclen]

EQ is more of a sandbox MMO and is one of the few MMOs without instances. Forcing teams just puts it one step closer to the amusement park type MMOs that EQ can't compete with on any level. Crap graphics, no BGs, bad raids, poor interface and many other quality of life issues. The free choice EQ offers over other MMOs is one of the few advantages it has.

[gangsta]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah just the whole server population at level 10 trying to gear up as best they can at that level, and killing each other while doing it.

Because its non traditional server maybe it's non item loot enabled and infinite PVP range teams server, and for each level cap there is a by person by guild and by team pvp tally so you can win each set of the PVP progression.

But really I would take any new pvp server ruleset its guaranteed fun for 1 year regardless of how fucked up the rules are.

This has all been done. People won’t player servers that stray too far from classic. Devnoob and Image made fantastic pvp servers people hated on them and called them drugboxes.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PVP doesn't need teams. There is no way to keep them going well.

Teams could be fine for a while just like no teams. Eventually it all degenerates.

To me the whole game degenerates when everyone is suicide rushing to get to level 60.

I don't care if teams or not, but I would propose a server where the level cap progressively raises and honestly I would want it to be as slow as possible between cap raises, like level 10 cap for 2 months or something and challenges and events when everyone is all at the same level cap, and level 20 for many months as well, ETC. When there are a lot of people that are NOT level 60, lots and lots of fun stuff happens, its a completely different game and lets just face the fact that the playerbase today is going to RUSH To maximum level and RUSH to valuable loot places as soon as possible.

I would also disable completely or permanently enable "legacy" items. On live, new servers did not launch with manastones after they were removed from game, same with instant click pumice stones and other items. These items create toxic environment for play in many ways and should be available via in game for platinum lottery or whatever. Same with locket of escape and other critical cheater items. Rubicite no reason to ever remove from game. Lustrous russet make it permanent but harder to get who knows.

At this point we know what it looks like when a server opens up and people bum rush to max level. It looks like a pile of shit. So it seems worthwhile to FORCE a slower level progression so people can take it easy and not stress out about winning the manastone war. It's like everyone gets transported back in time and has opportunity to buy real estate in manhattan (manastone equivilent) and its just too compelling for people to do this.

I also think item loot should be enabled on any PVP server with a PVP level range limit.
I also think that there should be no PVP level range limit on any non item loot server. This is not to allow level 60's to stomp level 1's but in order to allow level 60's to stomp level 15 twink PK's, which would actually not exist with no PVP level range limit.

There is just no good solution to twink PK's except item loot and level requirements for stuff that is not droppable. When twink PK's can be potentially looted they are a great aspect of the low level PVP game. When they are not lootable they are a nuisance you simply avoid, AKA dumb.

It's fun to talk about all the options a fresh PVP server could employ. Right now we have the worst of both worlds ruleset that isn't classic at all so its a bit of a bummer.

And we've been having these conversations so long that I'm pretty burnt out.

But pvp doesn't need teams

Just needs wipe.

All this good feedback will be lost, like tears in rain. Time for EQ pvp to die.

[Tune]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PVP doesn't need teams. There is no way to keep them going well.

Teams could be fine for a while just like no teams. Eventually it all degenerates.

To me the whole game degenerates when everyone is suicide rushing to get to level 60.

I don't care if teams or not, but I would propose a server where the level cap progressively raises and honestly I would want it to be as slow as possible between cap raises, like level 10 cap for 2 months or something and challenges and events when everyone is all at the same level cap, and level 20 for many months as well, ETC. When there are a lot of people that are NOT level 60, lots and lots of fun stuff happens, its a completely different game and lets just face the fact that the playerbase today is going to RUSH To maximum level and RUSH to valuable loot places as soon as possible.

I would also disable completely or permanently enable "legacy" items. On live, new servers did not launch with manastones after they were removed from game, same with instant click pumice stones and other items. These items create toxic environment for play in many ways and should be available via in game for platinum lottery or whatever. Same with locket of escape and other critical cheater items. Rubicite no reason to ever remove from game. Lustrous russet make it permanent but harder to get who knows.

At this point we know what it looks like when a server opens up and people bum rush to max level. It looks like a pile of shit. So it seems worthwhile to FORCE a slower level progression so people can take it easy and not stress out about winning the manastone war. It's like everyone gets transported back in time and has opportunity to buy real estate in manhattan (manastone equivilent) and its just too compelling for people to do this.

I also think item loot should be enabled on any PVP server with a PVP level range limit.
I also think that there should be no PVP level range limit on any non item loot server. This is not to allow level 60's to stomp level 1's but in order to allow level 60's to stomp level 15 twink PK's, which would actually not exist with no PVP level range limit.

There is just no good solution to twink PK's except item loot and level requirements for stuff that is not droppable. When twink PK's can be potentially looted they are a great aspect of the low level PVP game. When they are not lootable they are a nuisance you simply avoid, AKA dumb.

It's fun to talk about all the options a fresh PVP server could employ. Right now we have the worst of both worlds ruleset that isn't classic at all so its a bit of a bummer.

And we've been having these conversations so long that I'm pretty burnt out.

But pvp doesn't need teams

Just needs wipe.

some pretty good ideas here, i like most of them except item loot.

item loot makes it too niche

it doesnt solve the twink problem either, they rarely die

theres gotta be a way to make them have diminishing returns some other way

no lvl range pvp is just crazy

[Old_PVP]

Originally Posted by Tune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

some pretty good ideas here, i like most of them except item loot.

item loot makes it too niche

it doesnt solve the twink problem either, they rarely die

theres gotta be a way to make them have diminishing returns some other way

no lvl range pvp is just crazy

No lvl range can work, but you gotta have teams in that scenario. Was fun times to be had on Sullon.

I always like these threads... lots of good ideas for new PVP. But then I get my hopes up because the suits in charge never stop on by.

[Gustoo]

The Sullon style ruleset is one that encourages level 60's to be more involved in things other than raiding. There will be level 60 griefers and the other teams level 60's will log on to fight those guys and these fights will be happening in noob zones so it will be an interesting battlefield instead of always battling around the loot camp spots, which will still happen. It expands the scope of level 60 pvp. It also completely negates twink PK's. So it is better than what we have.

I don't support a Live Classic Sullon ruleset though, because the teams were bad, so I think it should be custom 2 teams.

Other good option is straight rallos zek, with fixes to level requirements particularly on planar + items and epics, and no skills maintained at all when deleveled. The changes in the economy provided by item loot are really fun. Droppable worn items are pretty affordable. Everyone has the same limitations. I can't speak to how lame it is in Velious when you're trying to compete in rags against full sky shrine + + + players or in Kunark versus people with lots of dragon no drop loot, but maybe who cares? In this ruleset, level 1-40 is a lot more fun for all of the casual normals, and even though twink PK's don't get killed much, it really is fun to try to get scrubs together to figure out ways to kill them because there is the chance of a reward.

Sure, the other type of PK is using all junky no drop armor but still using a high damage weapon and will tactically kill people during EXP and steal their armor, but when you're exp grinding and a total scrub you just wear cloth, leather, or banded and the game is still easy.

But yeah more important than those details of the ruleset would be the forced level cap, and the thoughtful handling of legacy features. If I'm playing on a server where manastone is dropping for X amount of time and will never drop again, there is nothing else worth doing except pharming that thing if I care about my personal access to pixels in the game later down the line. It's the best investment and it means that the entire vanilla era is fucked for everyone that has foresight. It shouldn't be this way.

Even the exact same ruleset we have today would be an absolute ball for the entire progression if they reworked the legacy item situation and had level caps to cancel the race to 50 / 60.

And these are simple changes within the confines of the existing excellent platform. The reason so many of us are here rambling on and on and shitposting all over these forums is because the project 1999 team has done a fantastic job and we really want to keep playing this excellent rendition of classic everquest.

I can't think of another way to nerf twink PK's except with item loot or no PVP level range but would be open to ideas. I personally love the Twink PK its a unique game concept especially in an open non instanced world here. My ideal server would probably be a vanilla server that has zero no drop items and rallos zek style item loot so it's dangerous for everyone but I would hope that in a FFA environment with item loot the PK / robber / murderer / scum designation was meaningful again so non PK's can hang out with gear on like they did on rallos and their reputation as a non PK mattered to them.

My suggestion of the sullon inspired ruleset is really just a sad capitulation on my part to the no item loot camp. I love strategically selecting a specific level for a character, and a set of items that work for that character and a specific arena (exp grind spot) that the character will spend his time on, and strategies for that arena. With the sullon rules this strategizing is eliminated entirely because if you want to kill people in crushbone you take your level 60 and win. So it's not my ideal at all but its a ruleset that solves a problem.

[Disease]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Sullon style ruleset is one that encourages level 60's to be more involved in things other than raiding. There will be level 60 griefers and the other teams level 60's will log on to fight those guys and these fights will be happening in noob zones so it will be an interesting battlefield instead of always battling around the loot camp spots, which will still happen. It expands the scope of level 60 pvp. It also completely negates twink PK's. So it is better than what we have.

I don't support a Live Classic Sullon ruleset though, because the teams were bad, so I think it should be custom 2 teams.

Other good option is straight rallos zek, with fixes to level requirements particularly on planar + items and epics, and no skills maintained at all when deleveled. The changes in the economy provided by item loot are really fun. Droppable worn items are pretty affordable. Everyone has the same limitations. I can't speak to how lame it is in Velious when you're trying to compete in rags against full sky shrine + + + players or in Kunark versus people with lots of dragon no drop loot, but maybe who cares? In this ruleset, level 1-40 is a lot more fun for all of the casual normals, and even though twink PK's don't get killed much, it really is fun to try to get scrubs together to figure out ways to kill them because there is the chance of a reward.

Sure, the other type of PK is using all junky no drop armor but still using a high damage weapon and will tactically kill people during EXP and steal their armor, but when you're exp grinding and a total scrub you just wear cloth, leather, or banded and the game is still easy.

But yeah more important than those details of the ruleset would be the forced level cap, and the thoughtful handling of legacy features. If I'm playing on a server where manastone is dropping for X amount of time and will never drop again, there is nothing else worth doing except pharming that thing if I care about my personal access to pixels in the game later down the line. It's the best investment and it means that the entire vanilla era is fucked for everyone that has foresight. It shouldn't be this way.

Even the exact same ruleset we have today would be an absolute ball for the entire progression if they reworked the legacy item situation and had level caps to cancel the race to 50 / 60.

And these are simple changes within the confines of the existing excellent platform. The reason so many of us are here rambling on and on and shitposting all over these forums is because the project 1999 team has done a fantastic job and we really want to keep playing this excellent rendition of classic everquest.

I can't think of another way to nerf twink PK's except with item loot or no PVP level range but would be open to ideas. I personally love the Twink PK its a unique game concept especially in an open non instanced world here. My ideal server would probably be a vanilla server that has zero no drop items and rallos zek style item loot so it's dangerous for everyone but I would hope that in a FFA environment with item loot the PK / robber / murderer / scum designation was meaningful again so non PK's can hang out with gear on like they did on rallos and their reputation as a non PK mattered to them.

My suggestion of the sullon inspired ruleset is really just a sad capitulation on my part to the no item loot camp. I love strategically selecting a specific level for a character, and a set of items that work for that character and a specific arena (exp grind spot) that the character will spend his time on, and strategies for that arena. With the sullon rules this strategizing is eliminated entirely because if you want to kill people in crushbone you take your level 60 and win. So it's not my ideal at all but its a ruleset that solves a problem.

Let me know when this comes out in paperback.

[reebz]

Lol, imagine being worried about drug addicts boxing. People that fit the bill have almost always been awful at the game. Someone like Agatha, not even that bad of a player but super fucking terrible when trying to box + high + more then 24 hours without sleep. OP knows nothing neither does that weird blue dude with the barbarian avatar trying to tell us we need teams. Lol.

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Disease [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let me know when this comes out in paperback.

I am working on a memoir about my experiences as an aspiring project 1999 forum quest warrior and it will include select writings. I will make sure this is included and send you a signed copy for your contributions.

Any new server is a guaranteed success. No new server will be enjoyable forever.