Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[lordpazuzu]

Originally Posted by nicemace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

charm aside, what zones were popular exp spots back in your day? was it only befallen, guk, unrest, lguk ? or did people exp everywhere? why is that?

Everywhere because ZEMs weren't a known quantity.

[lordpazuzu]

Originally Posted by nicemace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and yet come luclin and pop every single ench (warning: a generalization) was charming. maybe this is cause people 'figured it out' and it became more known about on these forums you mention. i personally learnt to charm from a guildie teaching me.

now we see it everywhere based on past knowledge.

please tell me what you think about shamans im keen to hear.

It wasn't because people were "figuring it out." Verant tweaked mechanics constantly because they were making it up as they went along just like the players were. Invis became more reliable, charm became more reliable, root became easier to break, etc.

[bubur]

here: http://web.archive.org/web/200809121...ml#post1160598

is my favorite thread about all the fun exploity stuff i missed in actual eq. its long and afaik nothing that would support either argument in this charm discussion per se, but look at all the crap we didnt know and someone else did and was using.. its a fun read

[Meiva]

This is such a shitpost.

Enchanters never charmed, nor did groups want them to charm because we went LD everytime our mothers picked up the phone to call the neighbor. Even if you had separate lines, or were wealthy with RoadRunner, you STILL went LD frequently.

Couple that with not knowing you must charm much lower lvl mobs for reliability. Most of us didn't know shit. Those that did were doing much of what we do now with charm, if they dared to brave a LD disaster.

I rarely LD anylonger. It fucking sucked back then.

[Ligma]

there are no AA that improves charm. only AA improvements is damage avoidance / mitigation and mana pool, neither of which changes how charm works.

There was for enchanter. But even a druid could charm mobs that don't summon and hit for like 500 in storm or tactics. And for a while they could give the pet a slow stick to have 70% slow and CH. And charm would last full duration with MR debuffs very often.

But to be 100% real, most people didn't charm in groups or in raids in PoP. Despite it being widely known how OP it was, and despite charm trivializing basically every raid pre-time or mith marr. Despite echanters being able to charm mobs that don't summon and quad for nearly 800 in fire, most groups were still kite groups at tables.

Even when it was well known how powerful it was, it wasn't as prevalent as you would think.

[bubur]

more anecdotal points: even on the combine/sleeper tlp server, i played an enc and no one expected me to charm.. this is after like what, 7 xpacs of eq? and people thought i was a good enc because i could tab target and lock mobs down as they were getting into the camp

its not like i couldnt have charmed and added a ton of efficiency, but ppl didnt expect me to. that was like 2005 or 2006 i believe?

edit: not to mention that on that particular tlp, people would have flipped a bitch on me for claiming a charmed mob. there were no instances back then and it was way worse than green launch in terms of mob availability

anyway it wasn't common practice even in a time when we used the titanium client in-era, ostensibly with the exact same charm mechanics as p99. heck it wasnt even common practice on p99 release. it took youtube videos post-emu era and popularization of the "solo artist challenge" for people to wake up to charm's power imo

[bubur]

tbh i find it a real shame enc can't simply play like they used to and be acceptable. it used to be regarded a real support class, keeping people safe and increasing efficiency with mana/haste, at least at my low level of play. i never power guilded in actual classic. it was my favorite role in rpgs

nowadays there's a lot of pressure for enc to bring a brickhouse of dps and constantly have a high blue on the charm line, with minimal chances to take a bio. but think about where that pressure is coming from.. a lot of it is the evolving community around us, not necessarily the mechanics

d-d-double post

[Zeboim]

True. 4 to 5 enc groups are somehow not only a thing now, but possibly the strongest group type. Incredibly unclassic, in 99 that would have been considered (rightfully) a suicide squad.

[Buellen]

Ok some everlore digging.


Yes its a bit out of era 2002 but gives good account low level charming.

https://web.archive.org/web/20021231...me=Charm&type=

"I happen to think this spell is LOADS of fun and quite productive! I have horrible luck with the regular ENC pets, can never get them to attack and I get clobbered. I saw the benefit immediately if you're waiting for a group to show up or messing about aimlessly. Get good xp and spell casting experience even when you're dorking around [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. My CHA is around 120, tash, root and charm and my solo attack sequence standing by. pick my pet, root it. back up and sit down and wait for 10 seconds or so, depending on root. thank the gods for the ability to still see while memming, revolutionized spell casting letmetellyou!. try to get as close to when your root will end, tash it and charm it. If you trust your charm, watch for it to break, then apply tash and charm (in that order!) Insta-PET! do the /pet guard me and sit down to bring up the solo attack sequence. Don't dawdle, charm has to be applied liberally. I'd say every minute and this is tough on mana. Go out and play with your pet! Plan to have to take on your pet and for gods sakes don't think you can take on a red con with your dark blue pet, they'll both be pissed at you. I find myself rooting my pets often and membluring them. Start over. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have not traveled a whole lot, but found that the animals (crocs, beetles, spiders, snakes) make good pets. Pumas/lions/cats are INT challenged. they run circles around you, very busy creatures.

If nothing else, soloing with a charmed pet is a very good and productive way to spend time while you wait for a group to build. You end up being able to safely practice all your spells, thanks to root and charm. Charmed pets don't get grumpy when you experiment with spells so use the time for that.
Submited by: Anonymous On: 4/2/2002 1:31:01 PM "

like many have said not a lot old post about these spells but this seem very good description of sound like level 12 enchant playing with his new charm spell.

[lesell]

I'm also looking up stuff on wayback and most people are talking about how charm is viable in a group in 1999:

Everlore discussion on page 1 from 1999:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000510...ils&type=races

They don't mention charm being dangerous or useless to use, and someone even suggests it as a solo tactic on orcs at level 19. I don't think it was 'common knowledge' no one used it.

--Submited by: Viscar On: 06/08/1999 10:14:43 PM '

Ever been in a spot where its pretty much free for all but the one high powered group or individual there is killing everything? No problem charm the monster that you want to kill and grab your group and run to a spot where no one is at. When charm wears off you and your group and finish off that monster with ease! Best of all since charmed monsters are considered pets, anyone else who is trying to blast a charmed monster is wasting ALOT of thier mana trying to kill something they cannot.

And another post by someone else further down:

--Submited by: Anatsia On: 07/08/1999 10:51:37 AM
I am what one would call a newbie? Nahh... level 19 ehchanter
charm is a great spell fighting orcs anywhere in Norrath.
For example go to a camp where there are three orcs or even two.
Charm the orc that is the closet to you and run to the orc and let him
hit you just once. Since you can not control your pet the pet or charmed
enemy is just there to protect you. He will have no choice but to help you fight.
Make sure you tell your party your charming because if you at charm and your party does not know
they will try to kill him and he wont die. The enemy is now your pet you can not have two pets so whatch out
do not charm when you have a pet already.
Then sit back and watch eachother fight until he is dead from the other enemy or when he breaks the spell
this is the so cool when ur are in a train or have more than u can handle

Just based on those two posts alone, I'd say you're wrong about it 'always breaking in 10 seconds' and and never used in groups, etc. Sorry. Obviously people were already using as a tactic (and in groups) it in 1999. No one talks about it breaking in 10 seconds. They don't even mention it being especially dangerous.

And yeah, I remember charming being risky back in the day, but I don't think people viewed charming as super viable until they understood it better. Early guides I've found on enchanters seem rare and they were a pretty misunderstood and under-utilized class back then. I found someone saying that Enchanters weren't very useful even, so... I think that bad enchanters may have somewhat clouded your judgment of charm. I remember there being a stigma about charming in general until people got good at it... a good charm isn't as memorable as the one time the ENC killed everyone with his dumb pet.

And guess what? 20 years later people are very good at it now, so I think that explains the idea that it 'seems' OP. I don't think it is.

Also, I have been trawling casters realm and such and even in 2000 (RoK) era under the 'guides' area there are tons of posts about charming... I can't read them as the wayback didn't archive the actual content, but from the myriad of 'charming' guides, I would say that by RoK, charming was seen as viable. Again, I can't read the actual content of the guides, but from the titles, I don't think they are all saying, 'charming is awful, don't do it,'

https://web.archive.org/web/20010727...ter&Category=6

That is from RoK era-- of note is the "Charming Tactics" guide on there. This is way before PoP and AAs and all that, just FYI.

EDIT: My bad the second link is 2001, I read it wrong, so Velious not RoK, but its still pre-Luclin.