Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[Ringi]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not at all. Everyone can learn the paths with practice, but the top racers are doing this dozens of not hundreds of times a week. For each foot race.

Step your game up!

Oh wow, duh! Never thought of that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Nibblewitz]

That’s why we are looking at 2 months of someone’s work after GMs dismissed it 3 months ago.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

your refusal to actually engage with the critique on a substantive level speaks volumes about the weakness of your position. putting words in someone else's mouth so that you can strawman them is pretty rude, as well.

I haven't refused anything. My stance is clear and transparent. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter argument. Instead you're insulting me and pretending like I have nothing of value to add, which is actually quite hypocritical of you.

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ockouts in ToV were done away with years before Riot was a guild, what does that have to do with anything?

I don't know, who brought up lockouts?

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kickent and Joria have demonstrated that anyone who wants to can easily cheat FTE footraces, and GM's are apparently unable to detect it enough to prevent it. That means at any given time, one or more racers could be cheating

So Riot cheats, admits to it, provides evidence of it, shares directions with the whole server on how to cheat, and what? No penalty? Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here or Riot would have a raid ban by now. I'd stop nothing short of a death sentence.

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you intend to defend this system, you have to come up with a compelling argument explaining why, in light of the fact that the races are so easily cheated, we should still have faith in a footrace as a fair contest to determine who wins FTE. Insulting other people and just saying "nuh uh" isn't going to cut it.

I'm not defending the system. Who is making up strawmen now? This post was libel against Vanquish racers. The accusations are baseless and proven so because not a single one of you has any answer for the holes that are poked in the theories present in the video. Yet you keep posting and moving goal posts.

There are better ways to get rules changed. But you've never had to deal with this:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Riot is once again showing their true colors in this thread with their "rules for thee not for me" gotchas.

And just like the Tunare restrictions, Vanquish continues to persevere. Instead of crying about the Tunare rules change, they hunkered down and now do a full PoG clear in about 2 hours under optimal circumstances.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

[Ringi]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... I have nothing of value to add ...

Correct

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here

From reading your posts this is probably the truest statement in the entire thread.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is called moving the goalposts, and is another bad faith rhetorical tactic. all things being equal, the first off the line is going to win the race. the route is easily practiced, and it doesn't take that long to learn how to run it. the advantage gained by scripting the start (which is both undeniably possible, and very easy to do) is the difference. in this line of thinking, to the extent stunningly is doing that then every race he has won could be suspect. more generally, every race is suspect from the outset, because there's not way to verify that the person who won didn't cheat to get the best jump. since we can no longer have any faith in the fairness of the result, the method of the contest should be changed.

bring back coth racing 2022.

Coth racing is removed, because it is WAY more gameable than foot racing.

Foot racing is not perfect, but it's better than NO CSR, (Although that would be fun for a bit). It's vastly better than rotations, and it's the most inclusive option available. And obviously it's possible to set up a script to run forward when a 900+ rolls. What the argument here is, the possibility of running forward via script isn't why your losing the races. I don't believe stunningly is scripting, however I concede to the point about how easy it is to do so.

HOWEVER, THE POINT IVE MADE A THOUSAND TIMES is that the REAL advantage a script has, is if it's a race on spawn. The programs ability to never be distracted is the real advantage.

SO:

ALL RACES NEED TO BE A ROLL OFF

EACH ROLL OFF IS DONE BY A TRUSTED MEMBER/GM. THIS PERSON SHOWS UP. DECIDES WHICH NUMBER SET WILL BE THE WINNER TONIGHT, TYPES IT IN /SAY, AND IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO ROLL.

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coth racing is removed, because it is WAY more gameable than foot racing.

Foot racing is not perfect, but it's better than NO CSR, (Although that would be fun for a bit). It's vastly better than rotations, and it's the most inclusive option available. And obviously it's possible to set up a script to run forward when a 900+ rolls. What the argument here is, the possibility of running forward via script isn't why your losing the races. I don't believe stunningly is scripting, however I concede to the point about how easy it is to do so.

HOWEVER, THE POINT IVE MADE A THOUSAND TIMES is that the REAL advantage a script has, is if it's a race on spawn. The programs ability to never be distracted is the real advantage.

SO:

ALL RACES NEED TO BE A ROLL OFF

EACH ROLL OFF IS DONE BY A TRUSTED MEMBER/GM. THIS PERSON SHOWS UP. DECIDES WHICH NUMBER SET WILL BE THE WINNER TONIGHT, TYPES IT IN /SAY, AND IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO ROLL.

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

Nah, you have equitable solutions instead of free pixels. That's all they really want.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't refused anything. My stance is clear and transparent. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter argument. Instead you're insulting me and pretending like I have nothing of value to add, which is actually quite hypocritical of you.

Yes, you have refused to engage with this critique on a substantive level, preferring rather to offer nothing but denial, and personal attack. It's not my fault you argue the way you do.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know, who brought up lockouts?

Uh, you did?

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So Riot cheats, admits to it, provides evidence of it, shares directions with the whole server on how to cheat, and what? No penalty? Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here or Riot would have a raid ban by now. I'd stop nothing short of a death sentence.

This is the sort of thing I've reference above - in any event, I think I speak for most people when I thank whatever powers that be that Samhot isn't a GM.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not defending the system. Who is making up strawmen now? This post was libel against Vanquish racers. The accusations are baseless and proven so because not a single one of you has any answer for the holes that are poked in the theories present in the video. Yet you keep posting and moving goal posts.

You are very much defending the status quo, else why go to so much trouble to (try, fruitlessly) rebut the OP? Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot. This isn't about an

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are better ways to get rules changed. But you've never had to deal with this:

Riot is once again showing their true colors in this thread with their "rules for thee not for me" gotchas.

And just like the Tunare restrictions, Vanquish continues to persevere. Instead of crying about the Tunare rules change, they hunkered down and now do a full PoG clear in about 2 hours under optimal circumstances.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot and everyone else. You're still doing the thing I pointed out initially - conflating the question of "does Stunningly cheat?" with the other, more important question "is it possible to cheat?" Yes, it is possible and apparently very easy to do. That by itself is enough to call into question the legitimacy of footraces with a /random as the start condition.

If you want to have this conversation, you must be able to answer the following question: why should anyone have any faith in a system of competition which is, demonstrably, so easy to cheat? If all you're going to do is say "nuh uh" then we might as well call it a thread.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coth racing is removed, because it is WAY more gameable than foot racing.

Foot racing is not perfect, but it's better than NO CSR, (Although that would be fun for a bit). It's vastly better than rotations, and it's the most inclusive option available. And obviously it's possible to set up a script to run forward when a 900+ rolls. What the argument here is, the possibility of running forward via script isn't why your losing the races. I don't believe stunningly is scripting, however I concede to the point about how easy it is to do so.

HOWEVER, THE POINT IVE MADE A THOUSAND TIMES is that the REAL advantage a script has, is if it's a race on spawn. The programs ability to never be distracted is the real advantage.

SO:

ALL RACES NEED TO BE A ROLL OFF

EACH ROLL OFF IS DONE BY A TRUSTED MEMBER/GM. THIS PERSON SHOWS UP. DECIDES WHICH NUMBER SET WILL BE THE WINNER TONIGHT, TYPES IT IN /SAY, AND IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO ROLL.

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

coth racing has a few things in it's favor, imo:

1) to the extent that the coth can also be scripted, the cothee still has to not fumble it once they land and get FTE (granted, this is less relevant now that kael FTE's come with a 5 minute lockout).

2) to the extent coth racing is also suspect, the distribution of winners was spread out more evenly, which suggests a more fair system. If we can't have faith in either coth races or footraces, we might as well choose the one that had the largest variety in individuals who could win it.

3) the barrier to coth racing is much much lower than footracing (which probably goes a long way towards explaining why the distribution of winners is more spread out). to the extent what the devs (and Vanq., at least so they claim) want is a competitive environment, lower barriers of entry to the competition themselves will promote rather than hinder that goal.

[Viscere]

"It's only one warrior"

Man, what an ending