[Elf Laywer Quest] FoW vs Seal Team

[Delekhan]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, let's not conveniently forget how super pissy ST got about bag limits on Trak because you wanted VP all to yourselves, with NO COMPETITION.

And the second you get competition in NTOV, what do you do? Send an individual out to dump a train on the other guild and coach your fall guy to claim it was an accident in /tells so your petition defense looks good? Just... LOL dude.

They want FAIR competition. Not what you guys decide is competition.

Your definition of competition is actually monopolization... the elimination of any true competition.

My God the rage, the jealousy. Nobody trained you on purpose. Nobody cares enough about you to train you on purpose.

Cothing to trips and waiting around is not a threat to anyone. Try to practice and build up the right way instead of fishing for concessions.

[Tilien]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTE races are fun, adrenaline pumping, and final. DPS races favor guilds with primals. In fact you just straight up wont win a mob if you don't have 5-6 primal rogues in your guild. Not only that, DPS races will become a gigantic headache for the staff. In more ways than I can count.

I bring this up because The Blue server did this, and there was very little issues with that system. It sure beats bag limits. Which WILL be brought to ToV if green can't get their ducks in a row.

None of this is counter to what I said. Competition rules are arbitrary, especially on a PvE server. "EXP group loots and distributes" is straight forward and final, as well. It is a little funny you say that FTE is straight forward and final when it apparently creates mountains of petitions.

Like take rules for engaging only 1 yellow text mobs for example: Does that make the race more fun if you can only engage 1 mob? Does it make CSR's job easier? Not really, all it does it make it so one guild can't monopolize. Again, arbitrary.

Again, you could just have some race or competition without the actual raid mob spawned to determine who gets mobs in the next cycle and save a ton of headache for everyone (no poop socking, no point or reason for trains to exist etc, if you wipe due to train just set up and go it again since you already won.). This fits all your criteria of having adrenaline/fun/saving headaches.

[The]

Originally Posted by Tilien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you could just have some race or competition without the actual raid mob spawned to determine who gets mobs in the next cycle and save a ton of headache for everyone (no poop socking, no point or reason for trains to exist etc, if you wipe due to train just set up and go it again since you already won.). This fits all your criteria of having adrenaline/fun/saving headaches.

This is sort of true, in that the competition rules can be whatever the server at large ultimately agrees they should be and the GMs back up. We have races and thus we have race rules and FTEs. If the server decided, eventually, that competition will take the form of a gnome race, or that each guild wanting raid targets sent a "champion" to the arena on a set day of the week for a mini-botb, or we had races of small FTE teams ala noble race , then that's what it would be and the race rules would be rendered void (except in that last example, probably). Competition as a concept is likely to always exist on P99 in some form, it's just that certain forms are easier to build towards or offer a wider more leveled playing field.

Which brings me to my second understanding of the raid scene in general: We have a meta on p99 that a lot of top guilds over the years have built towards as that is the structure that is most rewarded under the rule constraints. The rules as they stand reward giant forces with lots of able bodies to throw at an encounter, and people with enough free time to stare at walls for x hours and call/respond to batphones. IMO, this is not very inclusive and favors those willing or able to turn p99 into a side gig.

Because of this meta and guilds building towards it, we have a staunch opposition to having the raid scene defined any other way. If we had a majority rule voting body with GM enforced results of the vote this might be mitigated but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Also majority voting platforms are obviously susceptible to their own problems. I think there are ways to fix this and make the end game scene more inclusive and less of a headache for the GMs, but the player base has become accustomed to certain things by now and their inertia seems to hold us back from getting to that point.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Tilien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of this is counter to what I said. Competition rules are arbitrary, especially on a PvE server. "EXP group loots and distributes" is straight forward and final, as well. It is a little funny you say that FTE is straight forward and final when it apparently creates mountains of petitions.

Like take rules for engaging only 1 yellow text mobs for example: Does that make the race more fun if you can only engage 1 mob? Does it make CSR's job easier? Not really, all it does it make it so one guild can't monopolize. Again, arbitrary.

Again, you could just have some race or competition without the actual raid mob spawned to determine who gets mobs in the next cycle and save a ton of headache for everyone (no poop socking, no point or reason for trains to exist etc, if you wipe due to train just set up and go it again since you already won.). This fits all your criteria of having adrenaline/fun/saving headaches.

Racing with 1 hour lockouts literally remove all chance to petition, unless you think somebody is running faster than everyone else. The mob spawns, 5 minutes later you roll, FTE goes out, that guild has the mob for an hour. From there, it is very easy to come up with a set of guidelines on the locks, such as if another mob spawns right next to it, ETC.

Compare this to wiping at Eashen ramp for 3 hours at 3am. Or 6 hour Vulak kills with 4 zone wide wipes. This is exactly what you're looking at, and it's only going to get worse as more people/guilds show up to contest these mobs. It's not a matter of one guild cheating or not. It's just inevitably what will happen. I know this from 2 years of experience in this meta. From there, tempers flare, people sling mud, and try to always try to blame someone when in reality it's just the nature of 200 people sitting on top of each other trying to kill the same mob.

P99 is the only server out there, in any game, which offers a competitive PVE environment. This should be one of the most celebrated parts of our servers, however, anybody who brings up P99 on something like reddit you will immediately see a comment about how p99 is awesome but "the raid scene is awful". And I think this is largely perceived incorrectly.


To the other poster, I disagree with you about a raid democracy. I think the GM's would have fluttering hearts if 70-75% of the raid community came together and agreed on something that would ultimately give them less petitionquesting to wade through.

AND if we came together as a community, we really could see something like "October is Tournament Mode" Where guilds have to compete in various ways to win that weeks lot of mobs. Guild vs Guild pvp, 1v1 pvp (although sadly this is generally a gear check), HELL, Freeport to Temple of Veeshan gnome races. Whatever we wanted to do. Because at the end of the day, we have this content for literally ever. Doing something fun or different for a month won't matter at all (especially on the blue server, i'm sure ST would cry a little bit about a gnome race at this point in Green)

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 is the only server out there, in any game, which offers a competitive PVE environment. This should be one of the most celebrated parts of our servers, however, anybody who brings up P99 on something like reddit you will immediately see a comment about how p99 is awesome but "the raid scene is awful". And I think this is largely perceived incorrectly.

How is it not awful though? What chance does the little guy have in this kind of environment? I'm only someone who just wants to see Plane of Hate and Innoruuk one time face to face before I die, and in this cutthroat environment, based on the threads I've seen on these forums, I'm honestly worried I won't even get to do that.

Why can't we just play nice and share?

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is it not awful though? What chance does the little guy have in this kind of environment? I'm only someone who just wants to see Plane of Hate and Innoruuk one time face to face before I die, and in this cutthroat environment, based on the threads I've seen on these forums, I'm honestly worried I won't even get to do that.

Why can't we just play nice and share?

Because sharing means less for the 5-10% willing to stare at walls, so we can't have that.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is it not awful though? What chance does the little guy have in this kind of environment? I'm only someone who just wants to see Plane of Hate and Innoruuk one time face to face before I die, and in this cutthroat environment, based on the threads I've seen on these forums, I'm honestly worried I won't even get to do that.

Why can't we just play nice and share?

While this may be true to an EXTENT, playing EverQuest in classic very much reflects your experience. My father played EQ hours a day almost every day, and didn't have a max level character until Luclin. I remember our guild <Noble Lions> HARD wiping to Vindi somewhere around the end of Luclin.

However if you're a casual player, you can absolutely experience that content on p99, even p99 Green. Will you kill Inny during Classic at level 50? Probably not, as you are not really a casual player if you get to level 50 during classic. But during this era? If you reach max level, you will absolutely be able to get in to a guild that does that content. If you're in a guild with 9 friends you made along the way, and none of them have max level characters, that's on you for staying in that guild if you want to experience more content, although it's not necessarily a wrong choice.

For the record, I've been in a hard core raiding guild since 2017 and have killed Inny exactly once - and that was when I was in a casual guild. Anonymous. On the very rare occasions that my guild goes for Inny, I don't bother to show up. (I play on the blue server, my highest level green toon is sub 10.)

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However if you're a casual player, you can absolutely experience that content on p99, even p99 Green. Will you kill Inny during Classic at level 50? Probably not, as you are not really a casual player if you get to level 50 during classic. But during this era? If you reach max level, you will absolutely be able to get in to a guild that does that content. If you're in a guild with 9 friends you made along the way, and none of them have max level characters, that's on you for staying in that guild if you want to experience more content, although it's not necessarily a wrong choice.

There's no guarantee that a guild will invite me though. I've been guildless for months now, and the couple of guilds I have had on this server throughout the last year and a half haven't really been very guild-like; they didn't want to do anything with me, weren't interested in offering help, didn't seem to care that I am genuinely new to the later levels and were all just willing to run ahead and let me die. And I feel like the genuinely bigger, top-end guilds aren't going to be interested in teaching a newbie at all. I am not confident that I would land invites from them.

So I feel like atm my choices are, join a smaller do-nothing guild that gets steamrolled by the top dogs left and right, or try to join a higher-end guild and probably get rejected anyway.

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the record, I've been in a hard core raiding guild since 2017 and have killed Inny exactly once - and that was when I was in a casual guild. Anonymous. On the very rare occasions that my guild goes for Inny, I don't bother to show up. (I play on the blue server, my highest level green toon is sub 10.)

It's a personal thing, when I was a kid I thought Innoruuk was the greatest villain ever. He's still my favorite deity in the EQverse, and back in the day I wished I could have been a part of those big guilds taking down those legendary targets like Inny, CT, Nagafen, etc. But tall order for a kid who had to share a computer at home, was expected to go to school, do homework, etc etc. Never even got to max level in EQ during its heyday lols.

Now I'm a much older person who can feel his body start to give out, and it's still just kind of a dream of mine to one day see Plane of Hate and fight Innoruuk once before it happens. That's really all it is here.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no guarantee that a guild will invite me though. I've been guildless for months now, and the couple of guilds I have had on this server throughout the last year and a half haven't really been very guild-like; they didn't want to do anything with me, weren't interested in offering help, didn't seem to care that I am genuinely new to the later levels and were all just willing to run ahead and let me die. And I feel like the genuinely bigger, top-end guilds aren't going to be interested in teaching a newbie at all. I am not confident that I would land invites from them.

So I feel like atm my choices are, join a smaller do-nothing guild that gets steamrolled by the top dogs left and right, or try to join a higher-end guild and probably get rejected anyway.



It's a personal thing, when I was a kid I thought Innoruuk was the greatest villain ever. He's still my favorite deity in the EQverse, and back in the day I wished I could have been a part of those big guilds taking down those legendary targets like Inny, CT, Nagafen, etc. But tall order for a kid who had to share a computer at home, was expected to go to school, do homework, etc etc. Never even got to max level in EQ during its heyday lols.

Now I'm a much older person who can feel his body start to give out, and it's still just kind of a dream of mine to one day see Plane of Hate and fight Innoruuk once before it happens. That's really all it is here.

You shouldn't have any issue finding a guild that is willing to accept a newer player. We've had players who had played EverQuest for less than a total month do vital roles in raids (Soulcommander, god i miss you, he was a retired vet in his 50 or 60s)

Joining a guild on p99 isn't what it was like in classic though. You almost always have to apply online to the guild and join their discord. Join any of the largest 5 guilds on Green, and I can almost guarantee you will make your way to taking down that ugly mug.

Once you join a guild, a lot of the "guild activity" may happen in discord/voice, so again, not very much like classic. Guild chat isn't what it used to be in 1999. Also a lot of people are working on their own thing, with friends that they made while in guild, so just randomly proclaiming "hey does anyone wanna farm ry gorr?" Won't usually get much response. So my advice to you would be to join any one of those guilds, and just show up for things and be friendly. Eventually, you will find exactly what you are looking for.

Also get to 60 if you're not already! =)

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You shouldn't have any issue finding a guild that is willing to accept a newer player. We've had players who had played EverQuest for less than a total month do vital roles in raids (Soulcommander, god i miss you, he was a retired vet in his 50 or 60s)

Joining a guild on p99 isn't what it was like in classic though. You almost always have to apply online to the guild and join their discord. Join any of the largest 5 guilds on Green, and I can almost guarantee you will make your way to taking down that ugly mug.

Once you join a guild, a lot of the "guild activity" may happen in discord/voice, so again, not very much like classic. Guild chat isn't what it used to be in 1999. Also a lot of people are working on their own thing, with friends that they made while in guild, so just randomly proclaiming "hey does anyone wanna farm ry gorr?" Won't usually get much response. So my advice to you would be to join any one of those guilds, and just show up for things and be friendly. Eventually, you will find exactly what you are looking for.

Also get to 60 if you're not already! =)

I have no problems with discord, was in the discord of each of the guilds I was in. I'm not always super talkative, partly because I'm so used to being ignored that i'm honestly reluctant to ask for anything.

In both guilds I was in recently, I kept asking for help with Karnor's Castle so my wizard could get to the human skeleton somewhere in there for the Brain Bite spell quest. I had never been to KC beyond the entrance for using the EJ evac spell, so I definitely needed help. I could never muster a strike force for it within the guild and I ended up just quitting the wizard class as a result. I'm a druid now, currently level 24 lols.

Just honestly not sure what to do, if there even is a helpful guild out there, and I don't know whether they'd even be willing to toss me an invite.