Warriors. Who tanks with a 2h?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And your experience is what I was mostly asking for. I greatly appreciate your input brother. I can napkin math all the live long day but we all know that actual gameplay is where the kicker is. You gave me what I was precisely asking for: someone who has FR and other tools and what your experiences were.

Importantly I have to admit I was wrong in my statements about combined dual wield ratios being inferior to 42/43. On this front I was incorrect. I tried to run the numbers of raw white damage threat and it wasn’t working out the way I was expected. Bear in mind there are NO firm/verified equations for this so the numbers could still be fuzzy. Frostreaver did not continue to pull ahead as expected. In some cases it slid backwards.

Combined aggro with level 60 and 100% haste. These projected numbers assume you are 60 and with 255 dex and factors in double attack, triple attack, duel wield impacts on relative swing rates. Using 70% for both double attack and dual wield plus the 12% triple attack rate I have found repeatedly posted. These numbers can never be perfect but it is what the community has held true for a long time.

Infestation + red epic = 6594/6694 hate/minute (dot variance)
Feverblade + red epic = 7275/7495 hate/minute. (dot variance)
Willsapper + red epic = 7093 hate/minute
Trident + red epic = 7109/7309 hate/min (dot variance
Frostreaver = 7174 hate/minute

For comparison infestation + frostbringer is considered the standard “great” aggro combo for non raiders and those just starting to raid.

Infestation + FB = 6345/6445 hate/min (dot variance)

For kicks ran the math and 2h epic = 6976 hate/min. Very respectable.

Takeaways:
-All around feverblade plus red epic are on top and maintains value of 3 procs per minute. Average over time it is between 1.4-4.3% better than Frostreaver.
-Trident/epic has is between 1.2 percent worse to 2% better than Frostreaver. more or less Nearly equivalent on napkin-math but undoubtedly has the 3 proc benefit and is much better on stats and reliability.
-Willsapper and red epic come in 1.2% behind Frostreaver but I’d argue still wins by a land slide because it procs a slow, stat superiority, and less variance having 3 procs vs 2. (Similar to above)
-infestation and red epic come in handily behind Frostreaver. 3 procs are nice but the difference is starting to get big and ripostes at 18 delay hurt.

Most important takeaway: there is only a 14% threat difference between the best group aggro setup and feverblade/red epic combo. I am not seeing anything that is “30% too little to get the job done”. The rest of these “raid weapon” combinations have variance within 5.4% of each other. Infestation and red epic being 10.7% behind the best.


Ps: I am a nerd and thoroughly enjoy hacking through the numbers on a day off. No argumentativeness here is intended. The more we all know the better we all are.

I will say though, for those thinking of swapping to sword and shield for a heavy hitter after defensive … if you have a Frostreaver or 2h epic maybe consider that using that instead. Fewer stats/ac but how much more will you cut down on ripostes while at the same time not crippling your aggro. Seems the be a “best of both worlds” scenario.

If the nerf hit all weapons equally then this

[Solist]

Ypu can tell he doesnt have an epic, when he is theorycrafting how frostreaver is more threat, with his broken maths. When you use both back to back, you know instantly which is superior. Your math is wrong.

2H epic is just better, go use one. And it's dogshit compared to the 1h combos.

[Solist]

And the reason you sword and board is the AC above worn cap. The sword board engages are critical the tank stays alive. Reread my first post mate, your job is staying alive. You are your most important healer. Your job is to survive. That means healing self, and being able to cover gaps on instant engages. From those 40 seconds onwards you are putting in the most aggro possible.

As I said, not all fights are the same, and not all parts of each fight are the same.

Once a fight is stable, noone gives a crap, you can kill 10 warriors on a slowed mob and it wont kill the raid. If you really think your frostreaver or 2h epic is "1.4%" from a feverblade/redblade, we'd be using them. We dont, not because we dont test everything, but because we DO test everything.

[Jimjam]

Uncapped shield AC not classic. That was from the SoL/PoP revamp.

Lots of unclassic here regarding ac and caps. At least it adds a touch of viability to shields and non-defensive tanks.

[Solist]

Shield bash being a hate generation was in that era, LDoN from memory.

Here since the TAKP code acquisition, it does some interesting things. Testing will show those who are interested.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shield bash being a hate generation was in that era, LDoN from memory.

Here since the TAKP code acquisition, it does some interesting things. Testing will show those who are interested.

I think you're thinking of Furious Bash. I believe there may have even been a PoTime item featuring it?

In the original design of the game normal bash was meant to be big aggro too. The dev's just didn't realise until MUCH later that it wasn't working, and by then it was too late to fix the mechanic and throw out the 'balance' that itemisation had been built around.

[magnetaress]

imho make ur own server and fix agi run speed and shield taunt/bash dmg/agro/threat and make warriors great again

also fix parry and reposte to pre-pop skill levels right now they are nerfed unclassicly u should parry and riposte a lot more at 50 and 100 skill

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to know crap!

The proc Nerf either hit it ALL or skipped somestuff

Stole this from detoxx/venice findings /nod

Sceptre of Destruction: 688 Hate
Warrior 2h Epic : 675 Hate
Warrior 1h Red Blade: 600 Hate
Feverblade, Bane of the Shissar: 510 Hate
Wavecrasher / Trident of the Deep Sea: 400 Hate
Neverderia's Horn: 105 Hate
Jaelens' Katana: 120 hate (80 from lifetap, 40 from Heal aggro)

Every swing generates threat based on (Weapon Damage + Damage Bonus) = Threat Generated per Swing. This is applied whether the hit lands or misses.
The weapon bonus is applied as hate in your offhand, even though it is not applied as damage.
Riposte / Parry damage is NOT counted at any sort of hate.

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry you don't got warder loot, imagine competitive raiding.

kek

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The weapon bonus is applied as hate in your offhand, even though it is not applied as damage..

This is a pretty nice bug btw, it makes stuff like Mosscovered Twig, Barbed Scale Whip, and Efreeti Standard the best offhands.