Are Bards strong enough/sturdy enough to solo in melee combat?

[Keebz]

You should know Bards on Blue are now (as of Chardok 2.0) on standard melee damage tables. On Green, they are on a different shittier melee damage table. So it's not they just _don't_ get Double Attack, Parry, etc. they also just deal less damage in melee than the true melee classes. Moreover, on Green the melee weapons and armors are all quite terrible. So, in summary, on Blue, melee-ing is more workable given enough gear, while on Green it's insurmountably bad—once you have a decent kit of songs, you will for the most part not be melee-ing.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should know Bards on Blue are now (as of Chardok 2.0) on standard melee damage tables. On Green, they are on a different shittier melee damage table. So it's not they just _don't_ get Double Attack, Parry, etc. they also just deal less damage in melee than the true melee classes. Moreover, on Green the melee weapons and armors are all quite terrible. So, in summary, on Blue, melee-ing is more workable given enough gear, while on Green it's insurmountably bad—once you have a decent kit of songs, you will for the most part not be melee-ing.

Interesting, may not want to play a Bard on green then.

So what should I call a Bard that relies and builds for a heavier role in melee? Battle Bard?

[Vexenu]

Bard melee is deceptively good if you're heavily twinked like Adron described earlier in the thread. Your actual melee damage is much lower than a Monk, Rogue or Warrior, but the fact that you can:

1) Slow the mob
2) Haste yourself
3) Regen yourself
4) DS yourself
5) Snare/fear the mob if you get in trouble

All make melee soloing on a twinked Bard quite easy. If you're picking low blue con mobs the level differential will do you a lot of favors as well with your melee damage and tanking ability.

It's obviously not as efficient in terms of XP per hour as swarming, but it's absolutely a viable way to move the XP bar. I definitely would not recommend it on Green, however. I'd only do it on Blue where high quality twink gear is cheap and abundant.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard melee is deceptively good if you're heavily twinked like Adron described earlier in the thread. Your actual melee damage is much lower than a Monk, Rogue or Warrior, but the fact that you can:

1) Slow the mob
2) Haste yourself
3) Regen yourself
4) DS yourself
5) Snare/fear the mob if you get in trouble

All make melee soloing on a twinked Bard quite easy. If you're picking low blue con mobs the level differential will do you a lot of favors as well with your melee damage and tanking ability.

It's obviously not as efficient in terms of XP per hour as swarming, but it's absolutely a viable way to move the XP bar. I definitely would not recommend it on Green, however. I'd only do it on Blue where high quality twink gear is cheap and abundant.

I'm gonna have a minor Haste item to work with, Swiftclaw Sash. This is so I don't have to hog the hand slot with Silver Chitin Hand Wraps, and I can wear the full Lambent Armor set for fashion and continuity. That'll eventually be replaced with Imbrued set and Belt of Concordance when I start doing Planar raiding.

Still, 15% isn't bad considering it'll stack with a song. The gear list I'm compiling right now:

Di'zok Wristsnapper
Crystalline Shortsword
Velium Fire Wedding Ring x2
Orc Fang Earring x2
Chipped Velium Amulet
Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak
Sebilite Scale Cloak
Sarnak Hide Mask
Swiftclaw Sash
Lambent Helm
Lambent Breastplate
Lambent Greaves
Lambent Vambraces
Lambent Bracer x2
Lambent Boots
Lambent Gauntlets

That will hopefully be enough to get me to at least 50 and into entry-level Planar raiding. Will eventually replace the Crystalline Shortsword with Breath of Harmony too, and have Symphonic Saber as needed for aggro. I'm not even going to think about the Epic until 60.

[Keebz]

That gear is not good enough to make me consider melee-ing as viable after the early 30's or so.

If that is what your budget looks like and you want to melee, you would be better served rolling another class. Maybe consider one of the other hybrids, since you seem to like versatility. Monk would also be a good choice.

[Vexenu]

Agree that is is not the best gear for this idea. Lambent looks great but doesn't have good tanking stats. Ideally you'd want to have a lot of high AC Velious armor (i.e. Phase Spider Carapace, Crystal Chitin gloves and boots, Dragonhide legs and mask) and fill in the rest with other decent AC, STR and HP items. You're also really gonna want to have the best weapons you can from the jump, which is probably a 10/18 Breath of Harmony and a 14/24 Guardian's Mace and an FBSS for haste. Most of this stuff is still pretty cheap and would make the melee Bard experience go much more smoothly.

I had a Bard with basically this exact gear awhile ago and he was a pretty sturdy tank. Was easily melee soloing with him in OT with very little downtime when I didn't feel like swarming.

[Loadsamoney]

I don't want to exclusively build and gear around melee and nothing else, I just want melee to be an option when I need it. The gear shouldn't matter that much because, as I understand it, Fear Kiting and Mez-Melee both work just fine for an untwinked Bard with no gear. If Fear Kiting is too risky because of nearby adds, then I can just do straight up melee with a single target, and when/if my HP gets low I can safely twist Mez > Regen > Mez > Regen until I get my HP back.

My budget is allowing me to buy a Sash of the Dragonborn. I have a Di'zok Wristsnapper already, which is a 10/18 weapon, identical to BoH, so I can pair it with a Guardian's Mace and be set on weapons until 50.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want to exclusively build and gear around melee and nothing else, I just want melee to be an option when I need it.

AC/HP/Resists is what you want to gear for on a Bard anyway. You'll randomly get enough DEX on gear and CHA is only useful for Lulls. The real opportunity cost is not spending money on instruments that provide a very noticeable effect on your songs, which are the most powerful thing you do.

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The gear shouldn't matter that much because, as I understand it, Fear Kiting and Mez-Melee both work just fine for an untwinked Bard with no gear.

I can say from experience, killing stuff with melee on a bard is very slow even with good weapons and haste. Hopefully, Chardok 2.0 improved things for you here. But more importantly taking hits as a bard is very painful if you aren't over geared. Bards get less return on AC than the pure melee classes. I highly suggest at least mixing in some high AC/HP pieces with that Lambent.

Anyway, sounds like you have made up your mind. So go out there and get your hands dirty.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AC/HP/Resists is what you want to gear for on a Bard anyway. You'll randomly get enough DEX on gear and CHA is only useful for Lulls. The real opportunity cost is not spending money on instruments that provide a very noticeable effect on your songs, which are the most powerful thing you do.



I can say from experience, killing stuff with melee on a bard is very slow even with good weapons and haste. Hopefully, Chardok 2.0 improved things for you here. But more importantly taking hits as a bard is very painful if you aren't over geared. Bards get less return on AC than the pure melee classes. I highly suggest at least mixing in some high AC/HP pieces with that Lambent.

Anyway, sounds like you have made up your mind. So go out there and get your hands dirty.

I've got some decent filler HP/AC pieces in between, Velium Fire Wedding Rings, Orc Fang Earrings, Chipped Velium Amulet, and Dire Wolf Hide Cloak. So my AC/HP shouldn't be that bad with full Lambent.

All I need now is for someone to actually sell it to me. 400pp for Breast, 300 for arms, 200 each for Boots, Gloves, Bracers and Helmet. That's what I'm offering in EC at the moment.

Need to get Lute of the Gypsy Princess and Mistmoore Battle Drums, and I should be good in instruments for a while.

[Loadsamoney]

I'm not using Lambent after all, I just transferred the junk my Ranger had stashed away.

Brigandine Tunic
Crested Helm
Hero's Bracer
Kylong Wrist Guard
Dwarven Work Boots
Black Ice Leggings
Vambraces of Avoidance
Silver Chitin Hand Wraps
Orc Fang Earring x2
Velium Fire Wedding Ring x2
Dire Wolf-Hide Cloak
Crested Spaulders
Crystalline Belt
Di'zok Wristsnapper
Guardian's Mace
iSarnak Hide Mask
Chipped Velium Amulet

Lute of the Gypsy Princess
Mistmoore Battle Drums

Hopefully this stuff will hold me over until I upgrade to either Thurgadin armor or Planar armor. Or quest for the Lambent crap myself.